The former Imam of State House Mosque has maintained his earlier stance on female circumcision otherwise known as female genital mutilation (FGM). Imam Abdoulie Fatty says the practice is not a joke which is why Islam does not compromise it. He says the practice is a Sunnah, the verbal transmitted record of the teachings, deeds, sayings and silent permissions or disapproval of Prophet Muhammad.
A fortnight ago, President Yahya Jammeh banned female circumcision. Jammeh says after 21 years of research, he is now convince that the practice is purely cultural because it has no connection with Islam. In a blunt tone, the leader who strongly support female circumcision throughout his presidency, threatens to “circumcise any religious or traditional leader” that goes against his impromptu presidential edit.
But a video broadcast posted on Imam Fatty’s Facebook page contradicts President Jammeh’s take on FGM. The learned cleric quoted several authoritative hadith and sources, including Buhari and Muslim that endorse the practice. He therefore sees female circumcision as something that has been advised by Prophet Muhammad. Fatty says whoever wants to condemn or ban the practice can do so but that does not mean it is not accepted by Islam. “That is between that person and Allah,” maintains a cleric who has spent more than two decades advocating the practice of female circumcision.
“Prophet Muhammad never advised anyone to stop the practice. In fact, he advised Muslim to purify themselves [wash janaba] when two circumcised parts touch each other. Here he does not mean the circumcised parts of men. No he is referring to a man and woman. How can you then tell me that circumcision is illegal in Islam?” the cleric who had earlier fallen apart with President Jammeh asks.
Imam Fatty describes as unfounded that female circumcision does not take place in Saudi Arabia.
Imam Fatty urges circumcisors to apply care during their procedure. “They are advised to cut little part of the clitoris, but it is not proper to remove the entire clitoris,” he adds, explaining several benefits of the procedure, including purifying girls, shining their faces at old age and helping them combat too much sexual pressure.
Listen to Imam Fatty’s full video.
Imam fatty’s reason for female Genital mutilation such as “purifying girls, shining their faces at old age and helping them combat too much sexual pressure” is not only absurd but it is also outright oppressive, ignorance and nonsense. What has cutting of clitoris has to do with shining of females faces as they get old? Pure nonsense and ignorance to say the least. The last part of his reasoning which is “to combat too much sexual pressure” is another form of suppression of female sexual satisfaction, subjugation to men and complete denial of women sexual rights which has been given to them by their creator. He needs to understand that this time around his former boss, chief terrorist evil dictator jammeh is working on his political survival and how to remain in power. Gambian people should stop listening to imam fatty because he lacks moral values to stand for justice and what is morally right. Imam fatty has been an advocate and a supporter of state-sponsored terrorism and political oppression in the Gambia for past decades.This is evidence by his outrageous and unislamic preaching in support of brutal dictator.
Well done Imam Fatty. I respect you for being consistent in the fight against FGM. You have written your name in the anals of our history for defending what you have learnt and not what an ignorant leader wants to hear. When it comes to religion there must not be any sugar coating. You have made reference to so many scholars and literature let those who oppose you also do the same. In that case we will lusten to them. But as the situation right now is we have no choice other than going along with Imam Fatty. You may have tumbled but not this time. That is acceptable since we as humans all err at some point in our lives. Bravo Imam Fatty for defending Sunnah.
Imam Baba Liegh was a teacher of Mr Faty whom I hate call an imam.
Not only Imam Baba Liegh is far more educated than Faty, but he also studied engineering and worked at NAWEC to earn a living. Mr; Faty who has no profession is of no use to society as all he knows is repeating, narrating and politicking for the highest bidder.
Long Live our venerable Imam, Baba Leigh.
deyda hydara sir, a student can also be equal to or even be more academically and intellectually advance than his/her one time teacher so imam Leigh been a one time teacher to imam Fatty is irrelevant to the subject under discussion.
what is most important is their individual contribution to the subject matter based on knowledge, logic, reasoning, evidence etc etc etc and above all respect towards all concern.
Knowledge is power so the more the people know, the better decisions/choices they may be able to make…….
they say the devil is in the detail so it is only fair ( democratic spirit haha ) for both the pro and anti female circumcision camps to be heard and scrutinised to the letter.
The question of whether it is islamic or not in my view only narrows the debate towards a yes or no answer. it is the way some people do things – culture. IS IT NOT POSSIBLE THAT CERTAIN PRACTISES FROM ANCIENT CULTURES, THOUGH MIGHT SEEM UNCIVILISED AND EVEN NASTY ON THE SURFACE, BUT WHEN SUBJECTED TO SCIENTIFIC/MEDICAL STUDIES, ARE INFACT FINE AND HARMLESS IF DONE IN MODERATION??????
Just my thought and not meant to anger any one but further share ideas/thoughts.
What do you think my good brothers…Al kodee….
In the deen of Islam worldly positions are irrelevant when it comes to proofs. The porphet Sallal Lahu Alaihinm wa sallam did ask us to refer to the Quran and (sunna) Hadihs for judgement/ clarification. This is what as Mumins we should go back to for proofs. Where are the teachers who taught us ABC and Baa Ba Black Sheep? Some of you are more intellectually higher in your different spheres of specialization than them. I think we let the knowledgeable judge according to what is found in the Holy Quran and Hadiths.
your these statements are all wrong. you need to be mindful of what you say, Imam Fatty is a true scholar and fearful servant of Allah. What profession is better than an Islamic teacher, propagator and preacher. Tell me?
These bunch of FGM campaigners are only lining up their pockets. The issue has never been a problem, not to my knowledge. Those who don’t do it should shut up and allow those who do it carry on. Is that not democracy? Thanks Kairo News for reviving the issue by bringing a scholar who is not talking out of nonsense.
Tell this highway Imam to go to hell. We refuse to adhere to primitive medieval practices that have no benefits in our modern lives.
Imam will not waste his time with the likes of Max who jumps along with the wind. Instead of launching blanket attacks on Imam Fatty, I expect you to argue your point making reference to great Muslim scholars that prohibit the practice. But I don’t blame loudmouths who cannot make sense out of anything sensible. Imam Fatty is a scholar who is well versed in Islam that’s why you need to listen to the video.
Max next time look before you leap. Attack with evidence then we will listen to you with all ears. That’s what an intellectual does. I listen to Fatty because he is talking confidently about what he knows. Thanks Kairo News for feeding our hungry brains.
Let’s take note of imam fatty’s retort and recognise that the issue of fgm confronts our generation to identify if there are any merits in the practice of FGM.
The same Imam was part of the circle in power tormenting any critical voice against the regime. He hasn’t criticised the unlawful detentions e.g. of Imam Hydara or condemned the killings and disappearance of so many of our people, with the full involvement of the regime, he preaches to every Friday for over 20 years.
They have now fallen out. That is good for the Gambia. To sympathize with him on an issue such as fgm is a betrayal to the other horrible human rights abuses he could also have spoken out against.
Let him and his ex masters fight it out. Our aim and role must be to hatch out a new gambia that guarantees the sanctity of each being within our country.
We should not fall prey to the distraction Manoeuvre going on in our country right now by peoples, of which the infamous imam was -until just recently- part and parcel of.
Some of you, Mr. Bah, Abdul Karim who supported imam fatty’s ancient belief in FGM, why is it that if it is good practice, it is not mentioned in the Quran ? Or where in the Quran do you see it that FGM should be practice? Can any of you make any specific reference in the Quran about its importance? FGM is simply a cultural practice which has no basis to improve the lives of women. It simply contribute to women’s health problems both psychologically and physiologically. many complications during childbirth occur as a result of FGM and these complications result to infants and maternal mortality. Various studies have indicated these complications. FGM also affects women’s sexual health and this is evidence by painful sexual activities or intercourse, and lack of interest in sex. Painful sexual intercourse resulted to lack of interest in sex, depression, lack of self esteem, marital problems ( which lead unnecessary marriage of two or more wives because the man is never satisfy), abandonment of wife, and many other psychological problems women face as a result of FGM. Psychological effects of FGM makes women subjugate to men and they become men’s object which affect the Entire decision making process in the family household. Hence men become dictators in the household and never allow women to express their feelings and ideas in the house because they are subjugated to men. Women sexual empowerment is a form of empowerment which enable them to express themselves such as express their power, ideas, self esteem, who they are can all be realize if we give them opportunity to sexually express their God given rights. After all any man want to have sexual active woman in his relationship. Can you imagine if we remove half of men sexual organ to reduce their sexual pleasure? How would men feel about that ? In the essence, the practice of FGM remove the half or more of the most sensitive part of women’s body that is clitoris. Clitoris is the most important and sensitive part of women sexual performance, desire and arousibility. Removal of this sensitive part is a heinous crime and it is an abuse that has everlasting negative effects on women’s health and reproduction. Imam fatty and his supporters needs to educate themselves on these facts. How would any of you feel if your wife or girlfriend has painful sexual intercourse? Please I need your respond.
The man is telling the truth.
Observation….The thing that I must first point out is that Imam Fatty’s education and Islamic knowledge is not the subject under discussion, but rather, his understanding of a very important issue, based on his interpretation of information on the issue and his position, as he declared above…
Sometimes, even the most educated and knowledgeable can make elementary errors and I think Imam Fatty has been guilty of
Imam Fatty refers to what is generally accepted as an authentic Hadith, but then (in.my humble view) made a wrong inference from this Hadith..
@Imam Fatty…..”Prophet Muhammad never advised anyone to stop the practice.In fact, he advised Muslim to purify themselves [wash janaba] when two circumcised parts touch each other. Here he does not mean the circumcised parts of men. No he is referring to a man and woman. How can you then tell me that circumcision is illegal in Islam?”
The main point of this Hadith, is not the legitimisation of an already pre-Islamic practice, but rather, the teaching that ghusl (Janaba) should be.performed when sexual intercourse takes place between two circumcised individuals..(Janaba should be.performed whenever male.& female organs come.into contact,circumcised or not)
Imam Fatty stated that the Prophet (SAW) never stopped anyone from doing it, but it can also be argued that he (SAW) never ENCOURAGED anyone to do it…Infact there is a Hadith, though weak, which narrates that the Prophet (SAW) advised Umm Attia, a woman circumciser in Madina, to only remove a tiny segment of the skin, when she performs it…
Although much should not be made about this Hadith, because of its weak nature, one can argue, given Quranic Verses which forbid harming self and others, as well as, Hadith which permits a woman to seek divorce if her husband cannot satisfy her sexually, that circumcision is only tolerated where no harm/permanent damage is caused…
Imam Fatty asks the question, “How can you then tell me that circumcision is illegal in Islam?”
The question that should be asked is, “How can Imam Fatty use this Hadith to make Female Circumcision obligatory in Islam.? That is quite a revolutionary step to take…
Female Circumcision is only permissible in Islam if it is for the good of the woman and there are instances where woman have got excess skin “down there” (which is a medical condition) and needs to be removed.
Female Circumcision, as we know it today, like slavery, were pre-Islamic practices that were tolerated but not encouraged and left for advanced generations to abolish, when humanity has reached the right stage and that is our generation…
Isn’t it interesting that no Quranic Verse can be quoted to support Female Circumcision, nor any explicit Hadith for it…
On the contrary, the evidence of medical (and other ) sciences is enough to proof that Female Circumcision, as we know.it today, contravenes the spirit and letter of Quranic Teaching/Islam and should be abolished…
I will never ban my culture just because white people are telling me it’s a bad practice. They told us so many things are wrong and after a while we will find out that they are lying.
Imam fatty is always in my A list for people telling the truth no matter what. He always back up himself with proof and evidence. I love this man. There are very few people like him among the imams.
You are EXPOSED….Are the wollofs not muslims? Are the mauritanians not muslims?
For me, Imam Fatty has lost my respect the moment he said yaya jammeh is a man of God and anybody who disobeys him, disobeys Allah. He can say whatever he wants. The imam ratib was here and i catagorically refused to attend his prayer gathering. The Gambia has seen nothing yet. Allah will continue to put this “Al-balah” on us until we stop the hypocrisy within us.
Imam Fatty please go ahead and circumscize ALL your female family members, we do not give a hitch. We will not do the same to our families whether or not there legislation pass by your former stupid boss and his “kouthia” theater parliament.
Why all these fuzz, maybe you want your former boss to take you to “bamba-dinka” so that you save giving daily fish money to your family.
Have you sat a single minute and think of muslim families that have never practice FGM for centuries counting? Fool!
Deyda, you are now becoming too personal here. Did Imam say Wollofs are not Muslims for not practising female circumcision? No, he didn’t. All he does is to defend his case with authoritative sources. He also said whoever wants to shun it can do so that is between them and Allah. Let your Imam Baba Leigh who you said is more educated than Imam Fatty quote authoritative sources that prohibit the practice. We are not at war here with anyone here. We can all win when we retire into our rational sense, digests the content before arriving at judgment. I might disagree with Imam Fatty for being too close to Jammeh but that doesn’t mean we trash him, especially when he is talking about Islam. I will not judge between Imams Fatty and Leigh. Allah knows the best who between the two possesses more knowledge than the other.
Alhaji, how many times have you criticize Fatty in the past for aiding Jammeh in his criminal enterprise specially when he tries to paint islamic connotations to Jammeh’s rantings against Gambian muslims?? It is not because he now fall out with his former boss Jammeh that we should be sympathetic to him. Remember Fatty did not leave Jammeh at his free will, the guy was kicked out of State House and now he is trying to re-intergrate with honnest Gambians who shurn Jammeh.
Never forget memory lane guys.
Deyda, there is no emotional firestorm here. Let’s not fight and bring tribe into the discussion after all Imam Fatty wasn’t tribal. He only addressed the topic. So why do you have to get furious and personal. I would have sprung on Imam Fatty if he had become personal. Let’s stick to issues. That makes this respected forum educative, entertaining and informative. It’s the only Gambian online forum that exhibits maturity, professionalism and above all maturity. Let’s not therefore demean the treasure at hand.
Ceasefire guys. I’ll not sit by and allow you guys to throw negative vibes as Bax put it in this sweet and beautiful page. Democracy is not about arrogance but sounding constructive opinions. Tribe has no place here. Let us point our bazookas at AJJ, our common enemy.
You see gys I did this pointer deliberately in other to re-fcocus our energies on the true personality of Mr. Fatty. I will never forgive Fatty for justifying Jammeh’s 9 inmates killings linking it to islam. I can safely say many of the Imams problems with Jammeh came from Fatty first and other corrupt SIC members.
Let Fatty not piggyback on this issue to attract sympathy on his heinous personality as someone who aided Jammeh for the longest time.
I refuse to have a short memory simply because I hate Jammeh too much. Fatty is not a good man. Period.
I was present in 1998 when Imam fatty was asked whether any wives or daughters of prophet Muhammed has gone through fgm practice, but imam chest not to answer the answer, in those times I was 100% in favour of practice but then I found it very difficult to understand why the imam was unable to answer that simple question, I think for to himself and all those who are supporting him a favor he must try to answer this question.
He deserves no sympathy hiding behind such an emotional issue as FGM. Like deyda said above, he is part of the problem not the solution. I share the same cultural group with him, if you like, lest we accuse others of tribal insensibility.
Great news is we are going to be ourselves and decide what we want not what ladyboy Obama and west said , Gambia is Muslim country why celebrating Xmas and Sunday which going against our religion 94% are Muslim so respect the majority x
I have asked a very simple questions here at the beginning; “did any of you make preference in the Quran about the practice of FGM or did Quran mention the practice or importance of FGM in women lives ?”. There is no Quran verse that reveal the justification or importance of FGM in lives of women. FGM has been practiced before Islam came into existence. In Islam, women has rights to sexual enjoyment and this is evidence by the fact that woman has rights to divorce her husband if he does not provide sexual satisfaction. It is therefore important to note that God has recognize the rights all human being he created and these rights must be respected. It is God given rights. If God has given women the rights to divorce their husband based on lack of sexual satisfaction then why would you remove the most sensitive part of female body which immensely help to achieve sexual satisfaction? Even the prophet has emphasized this when he said “do not cut severely as that is better for a woman and more desire for a husband “Osuman Abu Dawud, Book 41, #5251. This is very weak Hadith as narrated by many scholars. It is the respect for tradition that was why it wasn’t outright condemn by prophet but this doesn’t mean it is ok to practice it if you find out it is harmful to health of women. looking at Islamic law, women rights to sexual satisfaction is well established and this practice of FGM is against women sexual satisfaction because it cause painful sexual experience , lack of interest in sex and many physiological and psychological problems women experiences. Therefore it is bad or evil practice. God has given us brain to think about what is good or bad , this is why there is personal responsibility in what we do as human being. If our ancestors practiced FGM or slavery, does that mean it is ok we should practice them? No, these are evil cultural practices.
Imam Fatty has never answer any question directly about FGM and he continuously refuse to attend any debate where he is invited to talk about FGM. All he does is to release his ignorance statement or videos by citing some PhDs students who supported FGM. There are many PhDs students or scholars who supported or are against FGM across the world. What is Imam Fatty’s qualifications in terms of his educational achievement, and if he is such a righteous scholar, why would he dine with the dictator and also why he never speak against any injustices in our country? It is past time to use our brain to think and to recognize injustices, corruption and lawlessness of this confused scholars who are after their political interest.
God is very democratic and has given human being the free will to choose what we desire and he is never angry or punish us by not following what he said because he knew there is special day when all human beings will be accountable for their actions. Why would God create a evil human being like dictator Jammeh if God didn’t want us to make a choice of how should treat each other as human being? Democracy and rule of law is from God himself but it is ignorant human beings who abuse it for their political gains just like terrorists are using Islam to kill people and just like some ungrateful and unscrupulous imams in the Gambia are aiding the Dictator to oppress Gambians.
ON THE ISSUE OF FEMALE CIRCUMCISION:
AS PROGRESSIVE MUSLIMS, WE THOROUGHLY UNDERSTAND AND RESPECT IMAM ABDOULIE FATTY’S POSITION. ONE THING IS OBVIOUS TO US, AND THAT IS AS AFRICANS AND GAMBIANS, NO ONE CAN TELL US THAT THE CULTURAL PRACTICE WAS BROUGHT TO US BY ISLAM. WE DO NOT READ THE QURAN TO OUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS WHEN THEY ARE TAKEN SOUTH; WHICH IS A SIGNIFICANT INDICATION OF THE PRACTICE’S NON-MUSLIM ROOTS AMONGST US. ALL THE THINGS WE DO AND SAY ARE VERY TRADITIONAL AFRICAN.
OUR POSITION THEREFORE REMAINS THAT THE EDUCATION OF THE GIRL CHILD AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL POSSIBLE SHOULD BE THE KEY TO A LONG TERM SOLUTION. THOUGH SOME PEOPLE WANT US TO BELIEVE THAT FEMALE CIRCUMCISION IS ANOTHER MACHO CONSPIRACY OF CONTROL OVER OUR WOMEN, WE KNOW IN TRADITIONAL AFRICAN SOCIETIES THE ROLES MEN PLAY IN RELATION TO THE CULTURE ARE VERY SECONDARY..
FROM THE DEMOCRATIC POINT OF VIEW, SINCE THE MAJORITY OF GAMBIAN WOMEN PART TAKE IN THE CULTURE, WE SHOULD HANDLE IT IN A MANNER RESPECTFUL OF THEIR SENSITIVITIES. IN THIS REGARD, SOME OF US HAVE REFUSED TO USE THE OUTRAGEOUS ACRONYM BEING BANDIED AROUND AS A PROPAGANDA TOOL. IT IS DISTASTEFUL TO HEAR UNCIRCUMCISED WOMEN AND THEIR MEN TALKING DOWN OUR MOTHERS, SISTERS AND DAUGHTERS. IT MAKES NO SENSE POLITICALLY.
HOWEVER, AND FINALLY, CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT FEMALE CIRCUMCISION IS NOT MANDATORY IN ISLAM, IT IS OUR EDUCATED OPINION THAT SCIENCE, WITH THE SOLE OBJECTIVE OF MAINTAINING AND ENHANCING THE HEALTH OF THE GIRL CHILD, SHOULD BE UTILIZED TO RESOLVE THIS DEBATE. BUT IN THE LONG RUN, IT IS THE SOVEREIGN WOMEN WHO SHOULD DECIDE, AN ACT FOR WHICH THEY NEED MAXIMUM KNOWLEDGE. NO MINISTER OR PRESIDENT SHOULD FORCE ANY HAPHAZARD DECISION ON THEM!!!
This is one of the most reasonable and reasoned position I have read on this issue. Using derogatory terminology invented by outside forces has made the fight against female circumcision difficult for many to contribute to. And though female circumcision is practised in other parts of the world, it is made to look like representing African backwardness.
Very true modou . First they demean, trivialize and rubbish it and then they force their way to win the argument ( because they were never in for a debate).
It is a shame that people who called themselves highly western educated will use such tactics for winning a case and call it Democratic for the way they went on about talking down on the practise, the propadanda tactics etc will never pass as Democratic, free and fair in any western nation. Letting there be a honest, educative and evidence based debate etc and the people can decide for themselves.
Hydara , don’t worry about imam fatty’s disciples because they are blindly following a man who has equated dictator jammeh to prophet Yaya. These people never make any research about Islam and they like to talk about it as if they know what they are talking about . In all their talking , there is no contribution from their own perspective but to glorify a man who advocate and support injustices , lawlessness and corruption in our country . We have seen so many instances when imam fatty was accused of being responsible for illegal detention , torture and exiled of his fellow religious leaders . Any serious minded and true Muslim shouldn’t listen to a man who stand for social injustices , political corruption and oppression. Personally I have zero respect for him though I respect his rights to express his ignorance belief to those who will listen to him .
Omar Joof if you read imam fatty’s reason for FGM was “to combat too much female sexual pressure” which means that it is a form of controlling their sexual satisfaction or pleasure which is violations of rights of their sexuality and sexual satisfaction. Thus it is not conspiracy as you indicated. Islamic law guarantee women sexual satisfaction which is why it guarantee women to divorce their husbands when they cannot provide sexual satisfaction. These are issues women also need to be educated about so that they can know their rights to divorce their sexual underperform men or husbands. God is indeed very fair in his judgment.
Scientifically, harmful effects of FGM has been proven and which is now not debatable, so we do not needs to go into detail about its painful experiences, excessive bleeding which leads to hemorrhagic shock, various infections such as UTI ( urinary track infection), pelvic infection, birth complications, resulting death as a result of these horrific experiences in some instances . The psychological impact on women is life long process and its affects every aspect of their sexuality and sexual satisfaction.
We should also try to remember that most societies in the world are male dominated societies where majority women has no significant voice in those communities until recently. FGM is societal oppressive and cultural practice which has no place in a civilized society where God given rights are respected. It is only practice in dictatorial and oppressive societies in historical perspective if you look into each society where it is dominantly practice because such societies do not recognize the rights of women or girl child.
Points well made, Omar Joof…I agree with you totally…
Omar Joof said “from the democratic point of view, since the majority of Gambian women part take in the culture, we should handle it in a manner respectful of their sensitivities. In this regard , some of us have refused to use the outrageous acronym being bandied around as a propaganda tool. It is distasteful to hear uncircumcised women and their men talking down our mothers, sisters and daughters. It makes no sense politically “.
Omar, your indication that people who campaign against FGM in our communities across the country talk down on our mothers, sisters and daughters is indeed a false assumption and mischaracterization of their efforts and work they are doing to advance the lives of women in The Gambia. This statement does indicate to me you lack the understanding of the work of Dr Touray and her team is doing in The Gambia. First of all, I want to emphasize to you that majority of those involved in campaign and education of Gambian women about FGM are Gambian born women and men who understand the culture of the people.Their approach is based on cultural competent approach which means they put into consideration the culture of people. Therefore it is wrong to assume that they talk down on women. If you understand health care delivery system of most countries in the world, you will understand that their health delivery system is based on cultural competent care which means health care providers look into individual holistically by taking into consideration his or her belief, culture and everything has to do with the individual health. Gambians involved in this campaign engage in cultural training, sensitization and workshop before they start any of their work. Let’s us try to educate ourselves before we put false assumption about the work of these people who campaign against FGM. Dr Touray and her team very much respect our women more than some of you might assume. Dr Touray was a victim of FGM.
If you do not want uncircumcised women and men talk about this issue then there are so many healthcare problems today which are advocate and care for by uncircumcised women and men. If you go to hospital RVH in Banjul, you don’t ask if the Doctor is uncircumcised or not, or whether he or she is a Muslim when you want care. A lot of volunteers in The Gambia are non-Muslim, uncircumcised women who have high respect for our country and her people. Therefore it is insignificant to even mention whether the campaigners are uncircumcised or not.
Max, we must not allow you to forcefully impose your beliefs on us. All you do is to do a little reading of internet article and start bombarding us. Your question of whether female circumcision appears in the Quran is a measure of your high level ignorance on Islam. For your information, Islam’s foundation is built on Quran and Sunnah. So the Sunnah takes care of what is not fully addressed or missing in the Quran. For instance, without the Sunnah we would not have understood Salat or Pilgrimage. So if Sunnah addresses female circumcision, as a faithful Muslim I am satisfied with that. As the Quran put it rightly, how can you believe in some parts of the book and disregard the other. That in itself is hypocrisy.
My take is simple: let those who do female circumcision do it and those who don’t be. This practice has never been an issue. We have more challenging health issues to take care of. Have you ever heard of anyone who die of doing it or not doing it? Am comfortable that it is done to curtail sexual desire of girls and women. Prophet Muhammad said the best of everything is the middle ground. Have you guys forgotten that we have scarcity of men in our country? Most of them are either traumatised by Jammeh or have taken the backway. If we don’t reduce their feeling, how do we address the crisis resulting from their high sexual pressure? Leave our cultures alone for they hold our societies intact.
It is rather unfortunate that despite the advancement in knowledge, Muslims especially Gambians, continue to neglect their duty to learn about their religion. Religious knowledge, seeking which should have been our primary duty is given the least priority by us.
Personally, I see the issue of the debate on female circumcision as irrelevant when we are facing more problems to deal with. It had never been a force on any community.
However, that being said, we must be extremely careful when we involve God and the Prophet. They are very clear about their matters and had spoken and decreed. There is no compulsion, believe it or not but don’t attempt to change it or belie them. It leads to hellfire which we must all endeavour to avoid day and night. Its not about winning a debate.
Now to specifics.
1. Circumcision is in the Qur’an. Chapter 2: verse 124. God said: (And we tried Ibrahim with certain commandments and he fulfilled them…..). All the scholars including Ibn Khatir translated these commandments to include circumcision for himself and his family. (Whoever want to be further enlightened can google Ibn Khatir tafsir of the Qur’an and check suratul Bakara verse 124 and check out the details).
2. There are several authentic hadith that the prophet had commanded that when the 2 circumcised parts touch each other then ritual bath is compulsory. Another, he told the woman who used to do it that when she was to do it, she should just cut a little of the clitoris. If you want you call this hadith weak, but of course you can’t call the verse weak.
3. Islam is not an invented religion of Muhammad. Despite being its prophet, Islam is the only religion Allah (swt) ever sent to mankind and all prophets from Adam to Muhammad had the same message. He was the last and the seal completing their messages. A lot of pre-islamic religious practices are today part and parcel of Islam. e.g. the fasting, Qur’an 2:183, Hajj sura 22; the slaughter of ram sura 108 and many other rites in Islam date back to Prophet Ibrahim.
4. Whether it is practiced in Saudi or other Arab countries? the answer is yes. They are social issues that are handled and done at that level. A visitor or a student may not know some of them.
Now whether it is compulsory or not. Female circumcision like male is not compulsory though recommended. the same applies to many matters in the religion. It is not a force that one has to do it. You can opt not to do it yet you are a good Muslim. However, doing it as well does not make one a bad Muslim.
How it is done.
Like one commentator mentioned, research could be conducted on the merits and demerits of the practice in its entirety and knowledge exchanged for people to make their own choices. Like the male circumcision, the cultural and scientific environment in which they are done could be interrogated and knowledge responsibly shared for people to make their informed choices.
Despite the fact that there are negative implications, there are as well tremendous personal and societal benefits in it as well. All are entitled to their cultural and religious believes and actions at the end of the day. But one thing is certain, had its medical implications been as grave as they are being portrayed today, I wonder what would have happened to the practicing generations before who never had any medically equipped hospitals then yet we never know of all those problems.
Adama Bah , I cannot stop laughing about what you said . So in your mind we have to reduce the feeling of women because we have scarcity of men in our country due to back way menace . You are really unfair to our women . You need to be educated . Please go back to my previous posting and learn about physical and psychological effects of FGM on women .
Alasana Saine , I am not here to impose my ideas , belief or little knowledge I have on anyone. This forum is created to exchange meaningful ideas or debate or discuss issues of national concern. Only dictator jammeh imposed his ideas on Gambians . You have every rights to disagree with my view. I can tell you I always do my research very well before I post anything online because I know thousand of people read our comments or views . I think it is good idea to have a knowledge about something before you write wrong thing or give misinformation . I would encourage you to read extensively about any subject that interest you . You can read books , go online and read scholarly articles , journals , peer reviewed articles or research articles . You can find these materials in your Public library, your university library or website . Whether I am ignorance of Islam or not , those who understand the Quran and Hadith very well , have indicated that there is no verse in the holy Quran which support FGM and the Hadith which some scholars including your imam fatty make reference to, is a very weak Hadith . I thought since you claimed to be knowledgable about Islam you will come up with a verse in holy Quran to justify FGM .Try to be open- minded and never say I am satisfied with knowledge you have. Having an open-mind will enable you to learn new things every day . Knowledge is infinite and this is why in the holy Quran , the first verse God send to mankind is to seek knowledge . It is through knowledge you will be able to understand God and appreciate his creation .,
As you claimed to be faithful Muslim , do you think all Hadith are authentic ? If your answer is no , then don’t you think there are some unauthentic Hadith which can mislead Muslim ?
Please acknowledge that there are different forms of Female Circumcision and not all can be blamed for the many medical problems you are advancing here…
Secondly, almost all.of the problems you blamed on Female Circumcision can be found in societies where it is not practiced, including advanced countries…
Loss of interest in sex; infections, child birth complications; post natal stress (psychological) etc, are all common problems in.Western societies, where circumcision is not practiced and should not be blamed on Female Circumcision alone..
Most of us come from communities that practiced circumcision and where our women folk have children in the “tons” (so to speak), without experiencing these problems…So you need to be careful with your “data”…
Lastly, I don’t quite know where you are going with this “Women’s sexual freedom” position and I will not try to second guess you….
However, I think it should be.pointed out (and this may be controversial ) that the function of sex has been mabe known to man (and other creatures) for a very specific purpose and that is to reproduce.
Of course, like the functions of “eating” and “drinking” (non alcoholic ), there is a measure of pleasure that can be derived, but indulging in it (sex) for just the pleasure or for commercial purpose, is harmful to self and society, in the same way that eating for pleasure is harmful..
Islam does not make Female Circumcision an obligation but does seem to tolerate the mild form of circumcision, as it has already been pointed out..
But where there is any risk of harm (either primary or secondary) to individuals, then it is better to abstain from it completely..That is just common sense approach..
The connection between Qur’an and Sunnah is a very good one, but I think caution needs to be exercised when we deal with what has been reported as Sunnah, where whatever is being expanded upon, has not first been mentioned in the Qur’an…
Both Salat and Hajj (pilgrimage) have been mentioned in the Qur’an and so their detailed explanation in the Sunnah should not be controversial, where their execution don’t contravene the general teaching of the Qur’an…
We must, however, be wary of any teachings of any acts (of worship) that have not first been mentioned by the Qur’an, like Female Circumcision because we might be following scholars, rather than of the Prophet (SAW)…He (SAW) was only commanded to convey the message and demonstrate what he has been taught, as revealed in the Qur’an…
Undoubtedly, there was a period in Islamic history (after the demise of the companions and their contemporaries) when scholars almost tried to outdo each other to explain and expound on all aspects of Islam (or Islamic theology)…
These efforts most certainty led to the emergence and establishment of the four main schools of thought in Islamic Theology and Jurisprudence , namely, Hannafi, Shafi’i, Hanbali & Maliki….
There is absolutely no doubt that those great Imams were well educated, well versed in the Qur’an and had good intentions, but they were not infallible because they were human beings.
Moreover, their understanding of the Qur’an was limited to their epoch/period and most certainly, influenced by their cultures, environment and experiences, but if the Qur’an is meant for ALL TIMES and ALL PEOPLES, then its understanding cannot, and should not, be restricted to one epoch or period of its history…
Unfortunately, the tragedy of Islamic Scholarship is its inability or outright refusal, to move beyond the past into the present, and thus, many modern day scholars (like Imam Fatty) are still stuck in the past, because the institutions they studied in, are using curriculum that is influenced by these four schools of thought, rather than by modern knowledge and realities..
Those scholars who are taking the revolutionary approach of viewing the Qur’anic message within the context of our time and epoch, using the scientific tools available to us today, are often branded as “heretics” by this “stuck in the past” group of scholars and sometimes, even have “fatwas” issued against them…And that is a tragedy…
Today, scientific tools, like the computer, have brought to light, information contained in the Qur’an that could not have been known by scholars of that early Islamic period, and thus, our understanding of certain Qur’anic Verses have been broadened beyond the scope possible for those early scholars, whose works are still taken as the only right interpretations…
One example is found in Surah 74 : 30 & 31 (Al-Mudathir)…Allah (SAW) mentions the Hell Fire, says what it is and what it will do. (verses 26-29) and then revealed the fact that there are NINETEEN OVER IT.. (Verse 30)..
Verse 31 then gives the reason why this number of Angels has been set at NINETEEN… and it is quite amazing..
(1)…A trial for Unbelievers
(2)…In order that The People of the Book may arrive at certainty (about Qur’an)
(3)…Believers may increase in Faith (Iman )
(4)…And that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book and the Believers
(5)…May expose the hypocrites and those in whose “hearts” is a disease…
The Ayat then ends by saying that Allah (SWT) Guides/leaves to go astray, whom He pleaseth and that this is a WARNING to mankind…
Until the invention of the computer, scholars have grappled to understand this verse and what it means…Whilst some explained this to be referring to what will happen in the hereafter, when these 19 Angels throw unbelievers into Hell Fire, the general concensus was that the meaning is not known and that only Allah (SWT) knows..
The accidental discovery of the mathematical formular, based on the number NINETEEN, by the Egyptian scientist, Dr Razak Khalifa, who was not even an Islamic scholar, has helped to reveal the meaning of these Verses..
This discovery of a hidden formular in.the Qur’an (until our age) has motivated others to approach Qur’anic study from various perspectives, and the more these studies are carried out, the more amazing are what is discovered…
We should therefore try to read and understand the Qur’an from the perspective of all ages, particularly our own…Allah (SWT) has made it clear that the message is easy to understand, if read with wisdom, and that He will continue to show us signs until there is no doubt about the source of the Qur’an.
We cannot be stuck with understanding and explanations that are over a thousand years old, no.matter who was behind that explanation…
May Allah (SWT) guide us all towards a true understanding of the Deen and forgive us for our unintentional misrepresentation of the message.. (Amiin)
This is bull crap, I mean people be doing this yrs never had a problem, why now?
Imam fatty is right ! Yaya jammeh this is Sunnah and I guarantee if ur mum did not go, she will be following young guys just like these tourists old ladies do. Let’s not mix fact and fiction. FGM doesn’t affect girls at all except protecting them from being a whore like we have seen in some develop countries.
Bax, I know there are difference types of FGM being practice in most countries because I have studied it . Your attempt to dismiss the harmful effects of FGM this time around is contradiction to your earlier position. Medical and scientific research has clearly stated the harmful effects of FGM . Trying to equate it with other infectious diseases which has nothing to do with infectious diseases , complications and others health problems that FGM causes is false representation and misinformation to readership . Almost of all infectious diseases , sexual problems and birth complications that women experiences are well researched and established by world health organization , other national and international health research institutes / organization across the Globe. There is no medical benefits of FGM except it causes physiological and psychological health problems women experiences which I have indicated above . In the case of The Gambia , do we have any national research organizational / institute which studies numerous diseases killing our people everyday ? Gambia has no such institution of its own . The medical research council which is located in fajara is international research organization which study tropical infectious diseases . Bax , our people and government never research any disease which kill people in Gambia , infact most of those who died from infectious diseases , their death are blamed on witchcraft or superstitious beliefs . Therefore it is irrelevant to mention that our women reproduce lot of children without experiencing harmful effects of FGM . This is a false statement because most Africans don’t know their cause of death as there are few or no studies done to indicate the cause of death . How do you know that women produces a lot of children without harmful effects of FGM ? Just because our women don’t express their pain , doesn’t mean that they don’t have health problems . Every year thousands of gambians are dying from preventable diseases because of lack of medical advances or research , poor health care and access to basic health care delivery . Some of these preventable deaths are result from complications women experiences in child birth . Gambia has one of the highest infants and maternal mortality rate in the world . Studies have shown that Many women lost their lives during childbirth as a result of these complications due to FGM .Campaign against FGM is About women’s health first and foremost . Today you sitting in UK having access to best health care system because of research and scientific studies .
Let’s take malaria as one example . Decades ago Malaria has killed thousands of children in The Gambia than today because of medical advances and scientific research . WHO , other international organizations or research institutes helped in this efforts . Bill and Malinda Gate foundation has committed and contribute millions of dollars to combat malaria in Africa . This is why as we speak there is a research going on to find best drugs to eradicate malaria in our backyard and while this research is going on , millions of mosque nets were distributed to save the lives of innocent children in Gambia and other Africans countries . I hope some religious fanatics would not mention that Bill gates and Malinda would go to hell fire because they didn’t worship your God even though they are saving millions of lives in the Gambia and other places . Number one reasons we have significantly decreased malaria death rate is due to scientific innovation ,and
research supported by WHO , and philanthropists like Bill and Malinda Gates .
FGM is also classify into such category because various research and scientific studies have clearly shown that it is harmful practice and it has nothing to do with religion ., Left to our people alone, thousands will continue to die from FGM because of lack of knowledge of its harmful effects . Bax , our obsession with organized religion and which we do not fully understand continue to dominate our thinking and utilize our energy on issues that never improves our lives . Organized religion become the only hope our people depend on and it has enable us not to think beyond our comfort zone and therefore every issue we face today are blamed on it . We lack better understanding of these religions , and when we have better understanding of true meaning of religion , we can improves our lives . We need to use our brains to think and improves our lives . FGM is evil cultural practice and the holy Quran has not mentioned it for women to practice .
Gambia , I do not want to engage you on this because you clearly falsely misquoted and misrepresented the Quran . Even imam fatty is better than you in this regard because he only quote the Hadith to Make his points . There is no Quran verse which supported FGM and that position is clear to all learned scholars except you. You needs to go and read the holy Quran and get some one who can truly translate it for you ., if you want a copy , just contact kaironews so that I can send better one with transliteration for you to understand . Until then let your mind be free and don’t be obsessed with organized religion because it can make you to be a fanatic or terrorist .
@Max…”I hope some religious fanatics would not mention that Bill gates and Malinda would go to hell fire because they didn’t worship your God even though they are saving millions of lives in the Gambia and other places…”
Comment….I hope so too, but here is something you may not know…Mr God (I dont know what yours is or whether you even believe in one) has created and placed us here as a test for a better life, in the hereafter…
To pass the test and achieve the reward of a winner in the hereafter, you need to have the required grades in a number of areas, including helping the poor and needy, but that alone, may not be enough…
It’s like your college or university test for a qualification…You.need to study all subjects/courses and acquire the required grades in each course, to achieve the qualification…You cannot just do very well in.one course but poorly in the rest and hope to acquire the qualification…You will fail and be.amongst the losers, regardless of how well you have performed in one..
As a Muslim, one is required to be humble and to avoid pretending to possess knowledge of the future, which belongs to only my God…And only He knows who will go to Hell or Heaven, for that matter…
When will black people stop talking or debating on foreign religion? Guys wake up!!! When are we gonna have our own religion? God is for everyone!!!!
Bax, you indicated that you didn’t know my position of “women’s sexual freedom ” and you went further to indicate that sex is about reproduction. I don’t agree with that statement because people have different reasons why they have sex, some it is for reproduction, others just for enjoyment without any intention of reproduction or others reasons. women’s sexual freedom is God given rights and also it is their constitutional rights because constitution guarantee every one the rights to engage in sexual relationship which is inline with laws of the land . This is why we have people get marriage or have boyfriend or girlfriend in The Gambia .
Bax , the problem we have is that we advocate for democracy in The Gambia but the ideals of democracy which is basic human rights and freedom is not understood or respected by some because they used their obsessed religious belief to discriminate or infringe on the rights of others. This is why Dictator jammeh continue to disrespect and violate the constitution because some ordinary citizens have not respect for the rights of others and they tends to pass judgment on others. Closed minded people will negatively judge my position on FGM and women’s sexual rights . Therefore it is very important for us to recognize that religion is personal belief or affairs. Democracy is a beautiful thing because it gives freedom to extreme elements of society to express their views. In the case of Gambia, religion is obsessive phenomenon which contribute to our backwardness because we do not understand it since it was imported into our country.
Max….Learn to understand what someone is saying before you argue pointlessly..I know some people only engage in sex for the pleasure alone, and I have pointed out the effects of such a behaviour..So I don’t see the point to argue thus…
Rights, under Democracy anywhere, are not absolute, but are subject to what society considers to be its good, and the concept of Democracy, though universal, is not universal in its practice…There are universally accepted basics for all people, but there are also variations in the practice of democracy around the world…
Sexual Freedom, for example, which a fundamental right, is guaranteed by all countries, but there are variations in how this is practiced…
In some countries, you are free to sleep with as many partners as you can, provided there is consent and the age limit is not violated, but you cannot do that within a marriage context, because marriage is restricted to between only two individuals..
In other countries, your Sexual right is guaranteed but only within a marriage context and you can marry more than one wife…Sex outside marriage in such countries is forbidden..
Yet some other countries allow both sex within and outside marriage, whilst others still allow same sex relationships…These are all forms of guaranteeing Sexual rights and freedom, but within a national context..
But all societies restrict rights and freedoms where their exercise is deemed unhealthy, either from moral, medical, security or religious points of view…An example is sibling relationships…These are forbidden through “incest laws” in almost all countries of the world…So rights are not absolute and to think so is to misunderstand the concept of “rights” and “freedoms” under democracy.
If religion is “imported”, how about democracy.? I can’t remember it being first invented in The Gambia…No, neither religion, nor democracy are “imported” to The Gambia…They belong to us as much as they belong to anyone else, including Saudi Arabia (religion) and Greece (democracy)..
The fact that they came to us through individuals of certain nationalities does not make them “foreign” to us…To believe so is to have the same mentality as Yaya Jammeh , who thinks democracy is a foreign, imported idea…You want to think again about that position…
Bax , you missed the point I made here about sexual freedom. I said women’s sexual freedom is God given rights and it is Also their constitutional rights because constitution guarantees everyone rights to engage in sexual relationship which is inline with the laws of the land. This is why people get married, have boyfriend or girlfriend. You have indicated you don’t know my position and where I am heading with this sexual freedom thing, that is why I made referenced to constitutional guarantees of sexual freedom so that you will understand that it is the rights of everyone as long as the sexual relationship is inline with laws or constitution of The Gambia. Don’t try to confuse and contradict yourself here again.
Democracy is universal concept while religion is personal belief which is individual relationship with whatever belief system he or she has. Religion and spirituality are personal beliefs. Democracy is system of government which is decided by people of different religious beliefs. The basic ideals of democracy which is freedom and human rights which is also natural rights in every society and is not imported ideas while organized religions were imported beliefs which people were encouraged or even forced to accept. Looking at history of Gambia , organized religions existence were less than 500 years in our country , infact that figure may be too high. The ancestors of many so called practicing Muslims and Christians today in The Gambia worshipped traditional African religions as free people because they not force to worship any God of foreign concepts (imported religions) instead have their own beliefs. This is why I said Islam and Christianity were foreign imported religion into our country . Remember there was marabout / Soninke war and I am decedent of one of these forces who fought for various beliefs system . I know my ancestors were neither Muslim nor Christian and I am sure this apply to so many Gambians but not recent naturalized citizens like Dictator jammeh whose father came from cassamance.
If religion and democracy both belongs to us and anyone else as you indicated then why there is no democracy in Saudi Arabia instead of authoritarian and dictatorial regime ? Please think about that too.
Mr Omar Joof, your comments are respectable digestible and educative,you don’t even have to read details to note that you are one those Gambian we youngsters can learn a lots from.
Max, I suggest when you do write a comment take a hitch to read through before posting,reading through some of your comment are disgusting, ludicrous and contemptible. Little do you know about Sheik Imam Abdoulie Fatty. This man is a Saudi trained cleric who devoted all his life in search of proper Islamic education and has excel in all aspects.
Imam Fatty as controversial as he may sound on the issue of FGM as well as so many burning issues, has in many occasions call on scholars to debate him on the issue of FGM, that is even evidence on the online videos. on the issue of Ahmadiyya he call on them too to debate him at the independent stadium , but yet to no avail. I guess you and I know why, his argument are solid and are full of substance from both the holy Quran and authentic Hadith’s that are supported by erudite scholar around the world.
So I urge you to do a bit of research or zip up because readers are in for constructive and valuable comments and not inane.
Max i would suggest you restrict your comments and postings on matters related bad governance in Gambia, which you have appointed yourself as some sort of an expert. Otherwise, all your other comments on “all matters internet” only expose your inadequacy. Calling people primitive, ill or unformed, and referring us to so called unidentified reports or research shows an arrogance that cannot easily pass on this medium. Bear in mind that the majority of people reading or posting here are reasonably well accomplished in their own fields of studies.
Modou, I am really happy that you are following my postings and you have even considered me an expert on Gambia’s bad governance which I am not. First, I want to point out that I have every rights to express my view as long as it is line with kaironews policy which i respect very much. That said, your dictatorial attitude of telling me what to say, think or participate is totally against freedom of expression, I hope you understand that. You cannot be a dictator of Internet nor a policeman.
Whatever you do in your personal life doesn’t matter to me because it is not my business to know, so telling me you are an expert in your field is irrelevant to me. I think you must be jealous of my contribution because I know what I am writing. Whatever I said here please try to prove me wrong that is what matters to me rather than attacking me. I expect you to come with better ideas so that I can learn from you. This is why I join this forum but not to listen to your garbage of restricting someone’s freedom of speech. I am totally against Jammeh because of lack of freedom of expression, bad governance, corruption, lack of respect for human rights. Have an open mind and don’t be primitive in your thinking. It is closed minded and primitive people who try to restrict someone else thinking. With that I hope you contribute positively in this discussion so that we can learn something meaningful from you. Happy new year to you.
Omar, don’t you know that some of the terrorists today who killed Muslims and non Muslims are Saudi trained clerics who devoted their entire life preaching hate, discrimination and evil acts. So please don’t tell me he is Saudi trained. After all, don’t you know Saudi is one of the most corrupt, dictatorial and autocratic countries in the world. You don’t like my postings because you are one of those with obsessive Islamic syndrome and you do not have open mind. Please do more research about FGM and read the Quran. I have done my research very well and I know it is not Islamic. God is indeed fair and Almighty has recognize our rights as human beings.
FMG is compulsory in respected Islamic society as very clearly stated Male and female circumcised parts come together which clearly means FMG must for Muslim women. Some people without any reason are attacking this practice simply for sickening reason they know and trying to ban such holy practice is a very Satanic View.
Imam Fatty is right, but we must not confuse Female Circumcision with Female Genital Mutilation. These are two different things. The female circumcision which Islam requires is simply the removal of the prepuce of the clitoris (or hoodectomy as it is known in the US), which is a harmless procedure known to benefit women both in terms of genital hygiene as well as increasing sexual joy. See: http://asiffhussein.com/2015/04/02/female-circumcision-the-hidden-truth/
See what happened when Yahya Jammeh banned our beautiful Islamic custom of female circumcision. He was humiliated by his own people. Same happened to Hosni Mubarak. Never touch our Islamic duties!