Dear Suntou,
Thank you very much for your invitation to a critical dialogue. In your article titled The Godfathers: Fabakary Tombong Jatta et al. and published in Kairo News, you asserted that I am one of the Gambian scholars and academics who remains “… mute on the system we are fighting to disable; some are even working behind the scene to strengthen the dictator”. In addition to other Gambian scholars you mentioned, you also insinuated that I am one of those “… authors and social thinkers who are thinking Africa-wide whilst avoiding anything remotely Gambian” possibly because we “fear the consequences”.
Normally I will not bother to respond because my conscience is clean and I am working day and night, every day, towards building a better Gambia, a Gambia my children will be proud to call home. However this is a theme consistently raised in Gambian public and online spaces now reaching a crescendo and therefore requires exposition for the sake of accountability; as you also personally called me out, it is important to give an account of myself.
The struggle
The heuristics of nation building are complex and multifaceted and the articulation of the Gambian “struggle” is even more complicated. For some, the totality of The Gambian “struggle” is the removal of President Jammeh and there are many nuanced positions before and after this in the political continuum. The varying positions require sober dialogue, devoid of vitriolic personal attacks. My Gambian “struggle” is to see a Gambia where there is adequate food, clothing, shelter and the opportunity for the pursuit of happiness. A Gambia where the ordinary people are the custodians of a free and democratic society underpinned by the principles of social justice. I have no desire to colonise this space or occupy it from a dogmatic position; it is a statement of my starting position and an invitation to dialogue.
The structured nature of oppression
Having clearly stated my position on the “struggle”, it is also cardinal to clarify my situatedness and positionality. My thinking is informed by Thompson’s PCS model (2003) conceptualising oppression, and by extension underdevelopment and poverty as existing at three interconnected levels: personal, cultural and structural. The personal is the direct discriminations we experience at the personal level; the cultural becomes the normality that shrouds our local and communal construction of reality and the structural can be understood to be the power structures that legislate and enforce normality. Althuser (1971) further exposes this as hardcore and softcore violence of the state. The softcore is the media, organized religion and society and the hardcore is the violence of the state – administration, army and judiciary.
Based on this framework, to attempt to dismantle oppression, poverty or underdevelopment at only one of three levels would not really achieve the desired outcomes; there must be a sustained and coordinated attack at the micro, messo and macro levels to achieve sustained change. This also assumes that there is a clear and strategic plan of action. For example to postulate the totality of the struggle as the removal of President Jammeh, in my opinion, will not lead to every Gambian having adequate food, clothing, shelter and the ability to engage in the pursuit of happiness in a democratic state underpinned by social justice. My view is that we must build the agency of the ordinary Gambian to be best placed to be the custodians of their own development and advancement. This calls for sustained capacity building at the personal and cultural levels; which should lead to structural changes. This might be sticking a plaster on a broken bone or it might just be the spark we need for the butterfly effect to take shape.
In relation to my strategic response, there are a myriad of possibilities including forming a political party, armed insurrection, community development approaches, setting up online radios, writing regular articles for online papers, working within the system against the system in The Gambia and a host of other possibilities. My strategic response is determined by the time and resources at hand as well as how best to achieve my strategic outcomes. My decision on the scale and nature of my engagement is greatly influenced by the fact that I do not believe in violence as an instrument of change and that the people affected are best placed to find sustainable solutions to the problems they face.
My response – disruptive pedagogy and pedagogies of hope
The great work that all the positive role models you mentioned or called out do is commendable; I have had the opportunity to see most of them at close quarters as well as the great work those in the lion’s den are doing in The Gambia is truly amazing, most times at great personal cost. The little that I do complements the great strides they are taking every day. I have no qualms about engaging in the public space and where this is necessary I have done this though symposia, seminars and other forma l and informal spaces I generated both within and outside The Gambia; I will avoid the hubristic tendency to list them for the sake of brownie points.
My approach has been influenced by a desire to promote a nonviolent disruptive pedagogy to challenge the construction of normality within given spaces young people and marginalised communities occupy in The Gambia. My praxis is informed by a desire to generate pedagogies of hope. This is a clear focus to provoke consciousness, in generating a new worldview, and support action, by disadvantaged groups to grow sustainable solutions. This has led us to set up Global Hands (www.global-hands.co.uk<http://www.global-hands.co.uk) which has over 50% of its activities focused in The Gambia. Our work in this area focuses on publishing counter orthodoxy perspectives; international development with a focus on the Manduar Development Hub and international study visits; education and public engagement with a focus on provoking consciousness and supporting action; and chapters which take a grassroots approach to development. Again, I refuse to quantify what we have
done in such a short time with Global Hands, I am sure you can easily find out with your investigative skills :).
No Suntou, death does not scare us but we have to seriously think about the most strategic and tactical way of achieving our objectives and at this moment, the work I am doing with Global Hands in The Gambia is the most effective way I can do this.
References
Althusser, L. (1971) “Ideology and Ideological State Apparatuses”. In: Lenin and Philosophy and other Essays. (ed.) Althusser, L., New York: Monthly Review Press.
Thompson, N. (2003) Promoting Equality, Challenging Discrimination and oppression. Basingstoke: Palgrave Macmillan.
Ends
Well said Professor – it couldn’t be said better (although Luntango tried it in his own provocative way!).
This is probably way above Maxs and Bajaw’s grade for them to comprehend, but what say you Bax my in-law?
Thank you very much Dr. Momodou Sallah for thinking beyond the dogma of what I now call “The Gossip” and not “The Struggle” in the the progressive sense. You succinctly spoke my mind especially in this section of your rejoinder:
“The structured nature of oppression
Having clearly stated my position on the “struggle”, it is also cardinal to clarify my situatedness and positionality. My thinking is informed by Thompson’s PCS model (2003) conceptualising oppression, and by extension underdevelopment and poverty as existing at three interconnected levels: personal, cultural and structural. The personal is the direct discriminations we experience at the personal level; the cultural becomes the normality that shrouds our local and communal construction of reality and the structural can be understood to be the power structures that legislate and enforce normality. Althuser (1971) further exposes this as hardcore and softcore violence of the state. The softcore is the media, organized religion and society and the hardcore is the violence of the state – administration, army and judiciary.
Based on this framework, to attempt to dismantle oppression, poverty or underdevelopment at only one of three levels would not really achieve the desired outcomes; there must be a sustained and coordinated attack at the micro, messo and macro levels to achieve sustained change. This also assumes that there is a clear and strategic plan of action. For example to postulate the totality of the struggle as the removal of President Jammeh, in my opinion, will not lead to every Gambian having adequate food, clothing, shelter and the ability to engage in the pursuit of happiness in a democratic state underpinned by social justice. My view is that we must build the agency of the ordinary Gambian to be best placed to be the custodians of their own development and advancement. This calls for sustained capacity building at the personal and cultural levels; which should lead to structural changes. This might be sticking a plaster on a broken bone or it might just be the spark we need for the butterfly effect to take shape.
In relation to my strategic response, there are a myriad of possibilities including forming a political party, armed insurrection, community development approaches, setting up online radios, writing regular articles for online papers, working within the system against the system in The Gambia and a host of other possibilities. My strategic response is determined by the time and resources at hand as well as how best to achieve my strategic outcomes. My decision on the scale and nature of my engagement is greatly influenced by the fact that I do not believe in violence as an instrument of change and that the people affected are best placed to find sustainable solutions to the problems they face.” Dr. Momodou Sallah.
Stay blessed,
Prince Bubacarr Aminata SANKANU
http://sanxaafi.weebly.com/
Really Prince, you are rather the griot and Sallah the Prince.
You could simply say I agree with King Sallah and save Kaironews some few magabit dollars just to copy and paste.
How are you doing with projects? GRTS are really bad and Jammeh must GO.
Have a nice artistic weekend young man.
Look Guys, he’s made it clear; he is not concern with the removal of Jammeh. He will even be happy having jammeh remain in power as long as Gambians have enough food on the table and there is social equality in the country- a typical socialist mantra
mantra.mantra, isn’t it??- He is not concern about human rights abuses, the personalisation of the state and the lack of adherence the principles of rule of lack or the independence of the judiciary, or at least he has not expressed any concern for the vitiation of those values. He is to a degree a very indifferent person
person. That Is Dr Momodou Sallah for you.
God Save The Gambia
For the frist time I agree with you Lafia.
Dr; Sallah is a meanut butter doctor nothing more. However I must congatulate him for not hiding his identity from the dictator.
When will African scholars start quoting fellow African Schorlars and STOP the inferiority complex?
Safe journey Dr.
This is the typical mindset of the current crops of Gambian so-called intellectuals. I blame Suntou for even using intellectual on this folks, they are at best academics who are unconcern with the dictatorship but avoiding getting in trouble in anyway or form. Very sad to read this piece.
Those who acquire education to make money are TOTALLY different those that acquire education to SALVAGE Africa and the Gambia.
I am dissapointed as well.
Dida, distractions won’t stop genuine Gambians from alleviating ourselves, from the Murderous kanilai Manipulative Oppression, to RESTORATION of rule of law, justice & sanity; this IS the collective & individual aspiration of every SELFLESS Gambian, including this author…
Just like the author, I have always said, my heroes are those local individuals, living daily directly under Manipulative Tyrannical kanilai Oppression; while doing their bits in quotas, under strenuous circumstances; some in pretentious fears, sacrificing their lives, sometimes, in the process; every struggle world over, including ours, have consequences prior to succes…
Every Comrade Compatriot, including this author as he dilated, have choices in engagements in this NOBLE Struggle, to reclaim salvage the Motherland, as our UNDENIABLE rights; this is our individual & collective Birthright, owed to our ancestry home, ourselves in present generation, our children & future generations, into posterity…
What’s is essential, as noted in above piece, is for NONE to abdicate one’s incumbent duty of responsibility, including our genuine friends & international community, as global village, to ensuring the UPROOT of the Murderous Tyrannical kanilai Syndicate, which will always lead Gambia to havoc if not stopped..
Every Gambian, including humble Bajaw, just like the author posited, has choice in association, with the various available choices of salvaging our Motherland; my own choices on the options are known to my comrades in Struggle…
You have nothing positive to contribute to the developments of the hospitable Gambian community, who played amiable hosts to you; instead you choose to side with our Murderous Tyrannical kanilai yaya Killer DEVIL jammeh, despite your own individual experience in the effects & consequence of the vey Murderous Tyrannical kanilai Syndicate you choose to aid-abet & enable for materialistic endeavours…?
Bax as for Dida don’t him, he is shoeshine boy to the Qeen and the agent provocator for JK.
As for Dr; Salleh let him just deep his hands into his pockets and donate generously to the struggle and spare us the whiteman’s mentality.
I echo Lafia Touray La Manju.
Me too…….
thanks jobe
You street hustlers need to respect your intellectuals! But then again, you wouldn’t know any better(lol!).
Whatever you think is lack of respect here…………………, I just want to tell you that nothing sucks here like you stiff necked cayman of a @Luntango Suu Gangi. Street hustling in many aspects is far much better than suiting up a dictator’s taste.I have an extra respect for those Gambians in the rice fields and groundnut farms and not forgetting our fishermen,shopkeppers, the shoemakers and the blacksmiths. Damn you educated greedy cayman of a hazard to our future generations. No lol matter,………….you should be crying your tear.
I mean in plural,………….’YOU SHOULD BE CRYING TEARS’
Dida the serial provocateur lol!!
It is pleasure to read such a wonderful piece…Dr Sallah has responded well and has lived up to expectations….
When minds like this speak : with the clarity of their thoughts; the display of their mature understanding of the issue being addressed and the meaningful solutions offered, then commoners like Bax simply nod in agreement….
I nod in total agreement that violence is not the answer.;..that Jammeh’s removal is not the totality of Gambia’s struggle for democracy, for rule of law, for progress, etc;…that the best people to effect change are the ones most affected and on the ground..; that our role is to equip them with the knowledge and “tools” necessary, for as much as we can…
My-in-law, one can only show respect and admiration for such a mind…and I take my hat off to the learned Dr.
Thank you Suntou for “provoking” Dr Sallah out and into this forum…
Bax, Nobody expect anything different from you. Your biggest ally here is Dida which is unfortunate and disgraceful considering his past records. There is nobody who want violent except Jammeh. Dr Sallah approach is the easiest path anyone can take . It is an approach we are all doing everyday to feed our families , friends and neighbors as well as help to pay school fees and medical bills for countless people. What is the basis for that approach when you have the system which has policies and laws that supported political oppression ?
Maxs here I TOTALY agree with you. Well said. No further comments.
Dida, I respect men like Dr king and Nelson Mandela who despite their education , they never took easy path to arrive at their noble goals. Along their way , we have men like reverend Jesse Jackson who is not well educated but he was committed and stood by Dr king.The same can be said about the key players like janjally Bojang and others who played the most significant roles in our independent and political process . When idiot like you speak , only ignorance ones listen.
Dr Sallah spoke very well. I applauded his initiative out of his own volition to at least try to do something for the Gambian people. He could have chosen not to do anything at all and still fulfill his civic duties and other obligations as a responsible citizen in other ways.
Why the scapegoating of Dr. Sallah? Why do we have political parties? It is the responsibility of political parties to change the system. Period.
Individual Gambians can make their little contributions through their social work and political activism if they should choose to do so.
Let our opposition political parties brace up for their fight. People should not be drag into the ring if they choose to do something else. I understand the fight is tough and we need all the help. This is the reason why we should consider a strategic alliance of the political parties and stop fooling ourselves.
The day the NIA crocodiles knock at your door and brutally take away your loved one, that day you will know if the political parties are the only ones that should do the job of removing a dictator. Just wait my dear.
Deyda, what other options do you have? Armed insurrection. Military Coup. Gorilla Warfare. Popular Uprisings. Massive Unplanned Demonstrations. And others.
These are all actions that are outside the ambit of the law and constitute the basis for a revolution. And they can be violent.
I subscribe to the idea that to build a progressive and peaceful society, it must be a conscious and deliberate effort that seek to firmly establish all the institutions and structures that anchor our democratic and republican values.
And I also believe that power belongs to the people. To exercise this power we must seek the consent of the people on whose authority the legitimacy of government is established.
We have a process of changing our government and it is through political parties. We also have civil society organizations that can participate in this process of change. Political parties and civil society organizations can also work in tandem to bring about meaningful changes. So where is the need to revert to violence?
Even if you win Yaya Jammeh in an election, he will not leave. What would you do, sit down and cry, fight, ask his soldiers to remove him or call the international community to come and remove him.
Just keep waiting, the angel of death will certainly come for the final journey to an eternel democracy in God’s Kingdom.
Have a nice waiting weekend.
Kamalo said: ” … STOP FOOLING OURSELVES ”
Luntango adds: “IF POSSIBLE”!
Scanning through the comments of the pdois talibehs, Bax and kamalo, I have a strong feeling that Dr Sallah might be related to Halifa Sallah. Can anyone confirm?? We won’t take that against Dr Sallah though but it would explain why pdois disciples commented in the manner they did. I am an expert in the behavioural studies of Pdois disciples. (Lol!)
Thanks
“Dr Sallah might be related to Halifa Sallah”. FOOLISHNESS indeed! Lafia, that comment sums up your idiotic and tribalistic mind-set. It is tragic, not funny. AND YOU EXPECT INTELLIGENT PEOPLE OF DR. SALLAH’S CALIBRE TO ENGAGE YOU??
I am not going to make the article a back and forth issue with my good friend Dr Momodou Sallah. However, before responding properly, I would like to draw his attention to the words of a man he once idolises, Dr Kwame Nkrumma.
The statement below: “Seek ye first the political kingdom and all else shall be added onto you.” The message from Dr. Kwame Nkrumah was a plea to Ghana and Africa.
The agent provocateur, Dida Halaki somehow has a habit of defending lame and indifferent Gambian intellectuals, I do excuse Dida for the simple fact that, he himself was a victim the system we are fighting against, and if anyone knows first hand the ‘errors of a political kingdom’, Dida is no layman.
I am writing a short piece on ‘Halifa Sallah’s grandchildren’, which I believe will also add a little value to our discourse and pathway to self-examinations. In closing for now, what a ‘perfect alibi Dr Sallah!’,
If the political kingdom is not working properly, i doubt anything else will work in the long term. As accountants we know the failings of most institutions (country) is the fault line from the man/woman at the top….In any case, I will respond adequately. Gambian intellectuals should stop doing the Burundian intellectual indifferences during the massacre…”seek ye the political kingdom” let sort that out first.
.
Oh! Brother Suntou you touch my heart. Being a disciple af Osagyfo, I can only conclude that Dr. Sallah only stopped at the pre-cadre level and dived and never made it to the cadre level which one must master the philosophy of “CONSCIENSICISM” before graduating.
Little do people know that President Barack Obama is a Nkrumahist cadre. To satify yourself from what I said, go to youtube and listen to an audio of Stokely Carmicheal (Late Kwame Toure) and listen to Obama. Amazing indeed.
Lafia, I am not sure if Bax and kamalo are doing ‘Buddy buddy here’ by closing their eyes to reality of the political struggle and glamouring on the avoidance tactics of ‘our learned friend’. I assume Bax can rise above ‘Buddy Buddy’, borrowing from Pa Mbai. I am a bit perplex in the assumption that, political parties are there to fight the struggle and everyone else can do other things..
Dida, so Halifa Sallah is a tribe?? I see.
Thanks
Suntou , I think Bax is hiding behind the name of pdois to prolong this fight . My conclusion is based on simple fact that he has expressed his personal sympathy to family members of APRC government officials without any sympathy to the real victims of this regime. He has never expressed his sympathy but he is only interested in redress if next government come in . That tell me a lot about his thinking and his position in our struggle . He is so rigid and dogmatic in thinking that I doubt he even believe in the ideas of pdois . In this world of intelligentsia, we can read in between the lines and make conclusions about individuals political beliefs or stand. This is how FBIs are able to arrest would be terrorists . If he is geniune freedom fighter he would be writing articles to expose dictatorship in our once beautiful country because he is opinionated in his commentaries . So sad 🙈 to see him hiding . I only hope he comes out of closet and genuinely declare his position.
So Dr Sallah is related to Halifa Sallah?? No wonder the pdois diciples have thrown in a blinder here. It explains it all
Maxs…
Please stop the falsehood….Never had a case of victimisation come to the public attention without Bax responding appropriately..I have prayed for the souls of the departed, as well as, for the families of the departed…
I will show sympathy to any innocent victims of victimisation, regardless of who they are related to and I make no apologies to anyone…
I believe in the principles of personal responsibility and does not, and will never, subscribe to the notion of “guilt by association alone”…
I have never claimed any association with PDOIS in any way, shape or form ( except that I agree with their politics and with them on most issues) and so it baffles me that you will claim that I am “hiding behind PDOIS..”
Please let it be.made clear.to.you all.again that I DO NOT speak for PDOIS…My views are mine and mine alone…
No Suntu….
It’s not “buddy, buddy,” as you may think….It’s the reality of the situation and the perception of a common denominator that converge our views…
It is the demonstration of our understanding of the root causes of The Gambia ‘s problems and our common belief that we can resolve our problem without burning our country down….
We don’t even know each other and have never met, except here on Kaironews…but it is an honour and a pleasure to interact with these gentlemen….and of course, with those on the “other side” too..
Momodou Sallah: “My approach has been influenced by a desire to promote a nonviolent disruptive pedagogy to challenge the construction of normality within given spaces young people and marginalised communities occupy in The Gambia. My praxis is informed by a desire to generate pedagogies of hope. This is a clear focus to provoke consciousness, in generating a new worldview, and support action, by disadvantaged groups to grow sustainable solutions.”
What an interesting position, it reminds me of Paulo Frere. The likes of Dr Momodou Sallah could have the potential to contribute far more to the struggle of our motherland. Just because they do not propagate it in public space does not mean they are not engaged. This is sometimes called the silent revolution. People are being informed, learning and organizing for a common purpose through the generation of hope pedagogically. People who want quick fix without any sense of direction or just for a particular interest or purpose would not appreciate this method because they see it as a slow process, but we must utilized the method that has the surest possibility of finally putting an end not only the economic decadence of society but all the other ills as well including the political oppression that fuels it.
I thank those who provoke Dr Sallah to humbly vomit his position for accountability because without them his humility would continue to submit him to eternal silence. I am now proud to notice that our homeland the Gambia has such humble intellectuals of the needed caliber who has all the answers as to reconstitute society when the change we deserved is attained.
Yero Bah after 21 years Gambians know what they want. As soon as we remove the dictator we will be able to move to Dr. Sallah’s thinking process “trio” that is the structural part and institutionalise it very QUICKLY.
You cannot share the meat without killing the cow first.
“Lafia, I am not sure if Bax and kamalo are doing ‘Buddy buddy here’ by closing their eyes to reality of the political struggle and glamouring on the avoidance tactics of ‘our learned friend’. I assume Bax can rise above ‘Buddy Buddy’, borrowing from Pa Mbai.”
Suntou, my eyes are wide open to the realities of our political struggle. What may be different is how each of us see the reality of this political struggle. Hence your perspective on the reality of our political situation may be completely different from the one that I hold. And the reality of your political struggle may be different from the political reality of the struggle that I espoused.
This can be obvious from the different political views that we expressed. And this issue is not any different.
“I am a bit perplex in the assumption that, political parties are there to fight the struggle and everyone else can do other things.”
I don’t think you are quoting me properly. This is what I wrote: “Let our opposition political parties brace up for their fight. People should not be drag into the ring if they choose to do something else.”
Firstly, I did not make the assumption as you alleged that ” political parties are there to fight the struggle.”
All I know is that Gambian political parties are engage in a political process to determine who will win the Gambian presidency in the next election cycle. This is a political fight. It is a struggle between all these political parties to determine who will emerge victorious.
Most of us in the “struggle” are aligned to these political parties as members, supporters and sympathizers. Others may not be.
And those of us who are may make the conscious decision to join the fight. We do this by supporting our parties of choice. We defend their positions on the issues. And we also sell their programs.
In contrast to my earlier statement what did I say that is contradictory?
Suntou , absolutely you are right about Dr Sallah once idolized Dr kwame Nkrumah as a young man in Serekunda . Something must have changed in him. He was very vocal in those days.
Yerro Ba , going by your previous statement that it will take generations before we can have any meaningful democracy, so it is not a surprise to see you give full support to Dr Sallah’s easy and sustained capacity building which will take generations to change military dictatorship.
Yerro Ba, Very true, but these hustlers have no idea who Paulo Freire is (lol)
Dida , Hustlers are playing far more important role in sustainability and development of Gambia than so called intellectuals many of who are making money in the international jobs and careless about our struggle. Dr Sallah himself was once a hustler in Serekunda , because of his humble beginning he realized he needed to concentrate on his education and this was why he achieved his dream . His achievements was enhanced through the efforts of selfless individual like Dutch or German citizen philanthropist Hermann Gmeiner through whose foundation or vision they were able to build one of the best high school in The Gambia called SOS Hermann Gmeiner Technical high school where Dr Sallah had an opportunity to get his high school education. If mr Gmeiner was a selfish guy , Dr Sallah won’t have such an opportunity, therefore in this world of give and take , we should always remember that there others who are oppressed , poor and disabled. it is responsibility of every citizen to play their role to end political oppression which affect every aspect of our development efforts and our existence as human beings . Remember , you , Bax , kamalo and I are all in the west because someone sacrificed his life for the freedom and economic opportunities you are enjoying. This is why I honor and respect our heroes who sacrificed their lives for the country because of love , duty and pride . Disgraceful and opportunist prostitute like you will always continue to play your ill-conceived roles .
“Seek Ye the.political Kingdom first”…
Well Suntu, the plight of the African People today, almost a.century after gaining the “political kingdom”, does not augur well for that approach now, does it ?
Dr Sallah, don’t insult our intellect.
Some of our Gambian intellectuals replete with glittering titles can only be referred to as ‘intellectuals gone astray ‘ from the perspective of Gambians freedom struggle. One sometimes wonder whether some of these well-intentioned intellectuals are aware of the degradingly institutional failure, right abuse, disappearances and death are direct result of autocratic governance in the Gambia, thus man made.
A system where citizens are not certain of their faith once they utters a free opinion. A country where one man is a source of all authorities, intervening at his own discretion in all aspects of people’s lives. The press exist merely as an outlet for government propaganda. Bribery and corruption becomes a way of life as means of earning a living. Can our so called intellectuals thus explain to us how setting soft charities masking their cowardice can free the Gambia from such a condition?
Freedom struggle is not merely a question of running charities and sending deputations but of militant mass actions and above all, the willingness to suffer and sacrifice. Anything short is hypocrisy.
If they fail to give service to their country supplicating thereof. Then they should know they’re abdicating their responsibility. But to come out and insulting our intellect by telling us that you doing charity and that will some day free Gambians from bondage is pure hypocrisy.
“Yerro Ba, going by your previous statement that it will take generations before we can have any meaningful democracy, so it is not a surprise to see you give full support to Dr Sallah’s easy and sYerro Ba , going by your previous statement that it will take generations before we can have any meaningful democracy, so it is not a surprise to see you give full support to Dr Sallah’s easy and sustained capacity building which will take generations to change military dictatorship.ustained capacity building which will take generations to change military dictatorship,” said Maxs.
Maxs, you are good at misrepresenting others’ views and arguing against it.I did not say it will take generations to bring meaningful democracy but what i said is that it will be a protracted struggle which may take a long time to do so. My position from yours is that you are just focused on the present dictatorship and thinking that once Jammeh is removed all else would follow.For me the struggle is to bring about a democratic revolution to achieve meaningful democracy.
I also think that the quote from Nkrumah that “seek ye the political kingdom and all else would follow” is being put out of place.Africa has already attained the political kingdom Nkrumah referred to but many countries are yet to attain the Democratic revolution to assert the will of the people. This is why i envisage a prolonged struggle to achieve that and Dr. Sallah and his likes can play a pivotal role in that process to bringing about the success of such a revolution. This is why i applaud and his initiative and praxis.
Yerro Ba , I didn’t misrepresent your view , you have indicated that ” it will take a long time ” before we achieve genuine democracy which pdois envision . The phrase ” long time ” is an open-ended period which can mean generations to achieve your style of geniune democracy . Going by the success of pdois for past 30 years , they were able to secure not more than 3 constituencies victory in past years if I am right . Currently only wuli is their stronghold in The Gambia , so if I use that yardstick to measure the type of democracy pdois envision then it will take generations . This is because if you look at social structure now , those around 30 years were not around when pdois started and those people are father’s or mothers today , therefore it took a generation for pdois to even secure 6 percent of the country support . Using that logical , it will take another generations to achieve your envision of geniune democracy . Think about it .
Yerro Ba said ” my position from yours is that you are just focused on the present dictatorship and thinking that once Jammeh is removed all else would follow ” . Really Yerro , where did I stated that is only my focus ? Is that not misrepresenting my views regarding democracy in our country?
Democracy, I envision about The Gambia is a country where there is good governance , rule of law , equal opportunity for all and freedom of speech and association . What happen to your vision which you have talking about for the past 30 years ? So in your view setting up a charitable organizations to help students to come to UK for studies will help to fight military dictatorship ? Is that not what Jammeh is using by sending people to UK , USA through his personal assistant or through international scholarships given by some countries which Gambia has good relationship with ? How is that working out for us in terms of those students contributions to fight against military dictatorship ? 99 percent of them , went back to gambia to continue to help Jammeh oppress Gambians . These are people in his security forces , people who are closed to him through royalty , nepotism and other favoritism .
A major religion teaches; “when confronted with Evil, remove with your hands (physically & promptly)”; by working together in political actioner, along side capacity building we all do, individually, in our own capacities differently…
Anybody remunerating family, for example, friends & love ones back in Gambia, at any given time, are ALL capacitating the community, along side our rigorous pressure-grouping activities, against the Murderous kanilai Tyrannical Oppression plaguing our motherland & only home…
Other forms of combating Murderous Evil Oppressions permits speaking against “removing by tongue”; or despise, loathe & avoid collusion, aid-abet enabling of the Murderous EVIL Oppression; any of the options are more impactful than the other; so we expected our educated elites in particular, the opinionated, & all Gambians, friends, & International Community, to play that vibrant roles, in combating Murderous Tyrannical kanilai Oppression in Gambia, soonest, before it degenerates into strife just like in other places before…
As comrades we have our separate individual commitments at personal, family & communal, societal levels; we all must be allowed to determine our various areas, forms, shapes, degrees of engagements in the noble Struggle to salvage Gambia from Murderous kanilai Tyrannical Oppression & decadence…
“Democracy, I envision about The Gambia is a country where there is good governance , rule of law , equal opportunity for all and freedom of speech and association . What happen to your vision which you have talking about for the past 30 years?,Asked Maxs.
Maxs, after reading your last comment, I now agreed with Lutango that you have no clue what Paulo Frere is all about. The process of educating a society to become sophisticated as to make an informed choice is not a one day affair. Again for you 30 years is too long for that process. For me it can even take more than 30 years. I once referred you to the South African struggle. I also referred you to the struggle that unfolds in Latin America and is still unfolding there. For us, the first generation of leaders had failed Africa as succinctly said by Bax. This is why Jawara over stayed for 30 years. This is why Jammeh overstayed for 21 years. This is why despite the spontaneous uprising in Burkina , the clock is turning back. With the type of change I envisioned, that reverse would no longer be possible. The people would forever be in charge.
I have already told you the forces clamoring for change in Gambia are not a homogenous group, some are old wines in new bottles. Retrogressive forces such as the PPP,NCP,GPP, etc have long misled the people since the so-called independence in 1965. The people are kept backward, illiterate and uninformed. They were told to vote for their relatives, friends, uncles, and those they know. They simply play the role played by Inkatha Freedom party in the South African struggle and kept the struggle from taking root. But as I said that process eventually grind down and so will the Gambian situation to a halt. The politics of enlightenment is taking shape and not anymore slowly but speedily. Those who are observing the process in a dialectical way are in the know as to it’s speed of movement. Sorry that your gauge of the PDOIS process of education is misplaced. You are counting the seats based on the bygone election results. I am looking at the tempo of the struggle in relation to the feeling and opinions of the populace at each given time. And as I said you are again misreading what Dr Momodou Sallahs initiative is all about. This is why Bajaw is telling you that we all must be allowed to determine our various areas, forms, shapes, degrees of engagements in the noble Struggle to salvage Gambia.
Thanks
Brother Yero Ba, I encourage you to read “Dialectical and Historical Materialsm” by Dr. Kwame Nkrumah.
You will get a better grasp of the struggle.
Thanks.
Maxs….OK then….let’s hear how soon your approach will bring your vision to fruition in The Gambia….Since PDOIS and Dr Sallah’s approaches will take generations…
Let’s also hear the practical steps you are employing to achieve this…
At least, PDOIS and Dr Sallah are employing practical and visible steps to achieve their goals of ushering in change..
By the way, is PDOIS the only party in The Gambia whose approach will take generations..? How about the others..?
Both UDP and NRP have also existed for 20 years, which is also a generation…Wonder why you singled out PDOIS….
And you label.yourself as an “independent” observer..? Independent my foot…!!!
Yerro Ba said ” maxs , after reading your last comment , I now agreed with luntango that you have no clue what Paulo Frere is all about ” . Yerro Ba since you have a clue about Paulo Freire , did you see that you cannot even spell his name right lol.
Anyway I will be back .
Yerro Ba , ” for me it can even take more than 30 years ”
You have now agreed with my earlier statement that it will take generations before we achieve the democracy you envision . Do you see yourself contradiction ? Try to be consistent in your presentation in order to be credible .
Yerro said ” you are counting the seats based on the bygone election results ” . Yes the election results matters a lot in democracy and its dispensation . This is why pdois or any party want people to vote for them . It is the responsibility of political parties to enlighten citizens about policies and programs so that they make informed decisions during elections . Do you blame the people for making those decisions or do you blame the political parties in their failure to get the support of the people? I think you blame the political parties in their failures to get the support of the people. Those political parties with progressive programs should do a better job to educate citizens about their constitutional rights and responsibilities so that they can truly have informed population who would vote for them .
I do not have any problem for Dr Sallah to set up such organization to help consciousness in young people or disadvantaged group but my concern was how is such an organization have an impact on populations when you have the very system which supported laws and policies to oppress citizens are in placed ? Don’t you think it is better we get rid of the structural system which promote oppression then we can come up sustained capacity building projects ? This was what civil rights movement in USA led by Dr king and others did . They fought the system which promote discrimination , oppression , mistreatment of blacks and other minorities till the federal government became aware of their own guilt in advocating for oppressive laws . As a result of this awareness through continuous civil disobedience , protest , demonstration , sit-ins , boycotts and other nonviolent resistance methods , federal government began to formulate civil rights laws . The same thing happened in South Africa where Nelson Mandela led ANC to put pressure on white racist government to recognize the rights of black people . It is same reason I encouraged Dr Sallah to target laws and policies that promotes oppression . Freedom in any given society is demanded but not given through mere setting up educational charity organizations . we demanded our political freedom and independence from the British . Dr Sallah gave a very smart answer to abdicate his responsibility as a citizen to the service of the nation which need him most in this difficult time . Education is not about making money and making name for oneself , it is about the service to the people . This is why in west , you don’t see their intellectuals put on suit trying to get recognition from ordinary people , instead they are busy trying to come up latest innovations , discoveries , inventions , laws or policies , and economic models that would advance the lives of greater society . While you can claim that our intellectuals have rights to stay neural or not even participate in this struggle , the question is ” is that patriotic thing to do ?”.
Maxs, before Dr King and others took to the streets, an educational process was taking place to create awareness justifying whatever steps that was to be taken and this had taken generations. You have forgotten all the Black intellectuals in the various educational institutions and churches giving enlightenment to the masses many years before Dr King came up with street protest idea. How many lives were lost for just doing that? Was Dr King not a priest or clergyman preaching integration and non violence well before they took to the streets? How many black organizations and individuals participated noticed or un-noticed to raise awareness to the general population culminating to the stage that is so dear to you-street protests? This is why I and many others in this forum are telling you that different people do initiate different steps all leading to one conclusion to free the people mentally so that they will consciously decide that they will no longer put up with the system anymore and will be ready to lose even their lives to get rid of it.
The South African struggle or any other struggle did not start with confrontation, it starts with an education on a stage by stage basis and the tempo was not determined by any individual but by the people becoming conscious of who they are and what they want to be. How many years did it take Edward Francis Small and colleagues to raise awareness about the need to demand for independence for the Gambia from colonialism? This is why I am saying 30 years can even be considered small for many struggles that you see unfolding in the world and to go through a democratic revolution to usher into a genuine democratic society for the Gambia will be no exception. Myanmar is a case in point.
As an Independent observer i would have thought you would recognize this reality but to my utter surprise you still have a problem with this simple explanation. PDOIS is not determining the pace of change in Gambia, they are just playing a role to help raise awareness and organize the people to take their rightful role in bringing about the change they deserve. So they are not to be blamed should it take a generation to bring it about. As Bax said singling out PDOIS for not getting votes to remove Jammeh is insincere to say the least since we all know the reasons why that is so and it is those reasons why we are fighting to change that unjust system.
An independent analyst should be sincere in his analysis of issues but I am afraid your concealed partisan biasness has clouded your horizon and deprived you of the basis of claiming to be an independent observer.
From the day slavery was abolished, was when the Afro-American civil rights movements and activities started and from then onwards have always costed them their lives and the right to live it. This is the best zigzaggy tactic to normalising a Jammeh 2016 victory.
Yerro Ba said ” An independent analyst should be sincere in his analysis of issues but I am Afriad your concealed partisan biasness has clouded your horizon and deprived you of the basis of claiming to be an independent observer ” .
Really Yerro Ba , can you tell readership which political party I have membership or how and what form am I biased other than expressing my views to Dr Sallah’s article and your subsequent respond ? You are being intolerance to the criticism of your views and pdois . I think every one here knows that you have more rigid and dogmatic view than I do . You are being brainwashed to the extend that you don’t have independent thinking as a human being . I refused to be colonized by someone thinking and I do not religiously follow any rigid political views or policies without questioning what is practical , sensible and feasible . This is why I declared my independent since I Started writing in this forum . You have once questioned my independent in The Gambia political process and I have gave you my answer as ” it is constitutional rights as a citizen to be independent in my political thinking and affiliation ” . I think your lack of awareness of political process other than indoctrination you recieved make you become mentally slavery in your myopic view . You must be a genius to know which party I am a member .
There is a differences between political awareness and indoctrination.Indoctrination become most dangerous characteristic and a liability in moving the country forward because individual with such mindset never have ability to critically think on their own or question any ideas or policies . The difference between you and I is my ability to question things and critically observe what is sensible, practical and feasible . This is why sometime I agree with pdois views on some issues . Due to indoctrination, limited political exposure , rigid and dogmatic views of some you so called disciples , smart Gambians do not ascribed to your ideas that people should dance to your outdated and rigid views . Your presentation is full of self contradiction without any intelligent expression of views to convince the readership . So you think for 21 years , Gambian people are still ignorance of military dictatorship , setting up charitable organizations is the best way for sustained capacity building projects to finally free us from clutches of military dictatorship ? You need to go back and read the history of military dictatorship in countries like Nigeria , and Ghana example.Stop wasting your time with old concept of Soviet Union and learn new ideas of 21 st century of what is practical , feasible and sensible to effect change we badly need in our country . The idea of collective thinking which I noticed some you disciples are engaged in , is the most backward and retrogressive thinking one can find in this day and age . We must pass that stage if we have to progress in our political process . One does not have to be associated with political party in order to be good politicians or citizen.
So going by your postulation , it is better we engage in sustained capacity building projects for next generation, when people becomes finally aware they will take to the street to topple the idiotic dictator . What a silly thinking that is .
Really Yerro Ba,”can you tell readership which political party I have membership or how and what form am I biased other than expressing my views to Dr Sallah’s article and your subsequent respond ? You are being intolerance to the criticism of your views and pdois”
Maxs, it is one thing to state that one is independent thinker but it is another thing to actually be one. I enjoy you very much because I notice your emptiness of purpose. I do not have to know which party’s membership card you carry or belong to but your biasness as a so-called independent analyst can tell me where you are coming from. The object of your writings is crystal clear. You are bent on criticizing only Pdois but you are uncomfortable when people criticize what you are writing. The reason why you are criticized as an individual is because you have posited yourself as such and you misled yourself to thinking that as a so-called independent you have the defined right to attack organizations and individuals but no one has right to counter your misinformation.
You are attacking Dr Sallah for opting his praxis but you have nothing to show how your approach will lift the country out of dictatorship nor have you shown what you are engage in that is better except by saying you are attacking laws and policies that keep the dictatorship in place. You think by attacking the laws and policies alone is sufficient to remove or change the system?
“So you think for 21 years , Gambian people are still ignorance of military dictatorship , setting up charitable organizations is the best way for sustained capacity building projects to finally free us from clutches of military dictatorship?”
Comment: When i told you that my position from yours is that you are just focused on the present dictatorship and thinking that once Jammeh is removed all else would follow ” . You asked: “where did I state that is my only focus?” and claimed that i was misrepresenting your views regarding democracy in our country?
But hear yourself again: “ So you think for 21 years , Gambian people are still ignorance of military dictatorship , setting up charitable organizations is the best way for sustained capacity building projects to finally free us from clutches of military dictatorship?” If this is not your focus then i don’t know what is it? Did Dr Sallah said anywhere that they are setting up charitable organizations as the best way for sustained capacity building projects to finally free us from clutches of military dictatorship?
Dr. Sallah said and i quote: “My view is that we must build the agency of the ordinary Gambian to be best placed to be the custodians of their own development and advancement. This calls for sustained capacity building at the personal and cultural levels; which should lead to structural changes. This might be sticking a plaster on a broken bone or it might just be the spark we need for the butterfly effect to take shape.” You are falsely ascribing a statement to Dr Sallah something that is a figment of your own imagination.
Yes, i will continue to question your independence in The Gambia political process, so long you keep hammering hard working practical and sincere players in the political process while still sitting comfortably on the fence and pretending to be the master revolutionary above all others. I still challenge you that you are not an independent thinker but instead a paper tiger devoid of any practical program. Let me add that our beloved Gambia does not need individuals sitting on the fence but rather activists working within a particular organization aimed at not only bringing an end to military dictatorship but putting a final nail on the coffin of all backward and monarchical tendencies in governance and ushering into a genuine democratic system that would address the needs and aspiration of our people.
Yerro Ba said ” yes , I will continue to question your independence in The Gambia political process , so long you keep hammering hardworking practical and sincere players in the political process while sitting comfortably on the fence and pretending to be the master revolutionary above all others .
Yerro , I can clearly see that you are intolerance to my criticism to various players in our political process . You sound like Dictator jammeh in above statement . You failed to understand that it is my constitutional rights to criticize any leader in our political process . You have every right to ask any ignorance question because democracy is all about freedom of expression but you no right to prevent or deny my independent political thinking or beliefs . I am sure you have no idea what democracy is all about . It is about freedom of choices that is why our constitution guarantee independent political belief and which is why we have independent National Assembly members . I hope you get that in your indoctrinated brain. Those who are sitting on the fence are the people who never participated in any meaningful activities to bring about geniune change in our country . I think if you are honest , you will admit that I am not one of those people . Therefore you falsely and dishonestly stated my position in our Gambian struggle. My activism and continued determination to bring real change based on democracy and rule of law increases by the day .
Here is my previous respond to the same issue you raised about my independent :
” I am independent minded guy who doesnt have alligence to any political party simply because I believe in the beauty of independent mind to analyze the given situation and make informed independent decision with regard to national issue . I do believe that partisan politics sometimes lead to political polarization which make individuals sometimes have rigged political ideology which might not advance our country . This is why we have political mud-sliding and bamboozling just to make other opponent look bad in the democratic process . Partisan polarization is number one reason why there is no effective coalition or alliance to challenge Dictator Jammeh . This is because every political leader look at his personal and party interest first . How can they come together to defeat jammeh when we have high partisan polarization ? National interest should always be the highest priority in our political discussion . Looking at advance democracies , example USA , independent minded citizens usually determine the direction of the country in any given election because they do not have alligence to either Republican or Democratic Party . So in The Gambia too , we need independent minded citizens who will understand that politics is about advancing national interest , not tribal or specific political party ideology “.
Please get this in your head and be independent in your thinking .
As for Global hands , I noticed they are engage in exchange visit in The Gambia . Go and read their website .
Yerro ba said ” I enjoy you very much because I noticed your emptiness of purpose “.
Wow Yerro, you are exposing your lack of intelligent by enjoying something without a purpose or emptiness of purpose. Do you realize that you are showing your ignorance by this expression. Only fools or idiot enjoy something or someone with emptiness of purpose. You must be schizophrenic or delusional in your thinking then. In psychology, any individual who enjoy emptiness of purpose must be suffering from schizophrenia, depression or borderline personality. I would suggest you see a psychiatrist before it is too late. I am glad you have finally called out for help.
Yerro, I have every rights to criticize pdois or any party or individuals. I did not attack Dr Sallah. I constructively criticized him, explained the various factors which contributed to military dictatorship, make a suggestion about what I think he needs to do and also commended his works. Is that not a fair assessment? What do you do? You totally support him without understanding the work of global hands or the organization he runs. For your information, we have so many of such organizations in various universities here in USA which are involved in provoking consciousness in young people through student exchange programs which help in understanding development from perspective of indigenous people, volunteering in various community initiatives. University of The Gambia had such initiative with saint Mary college in Maryland and other universities which help students to learn from each other’s countries cultural and developmental perspectives. According to Global hands, their core business is education and public engagement. Their method of engagements includes non-formal education, arts, conferences, project work and sport. All these things are good things I already mentioned but how is such going to change oppression when the laws and policies of oppressive forces are in placed. It is defiant, boycott, protest and demonstration against local issues such as high rent, discrimination and so on in the case of South Africa that activists focused on which eventually led to national issue. In USA, continuous defiant or protest such as one done by Rosa Park in her refusal to sit at back of the bus which led to civil rights movement. Therefore laws which promotes oppression and discrimination in my view should be targeted.
Maxs, in the above scenario you just explained, what difference then do you have with Dr. Sallah? As an independent person, how many sit-in demonstrations did you engage in in the Gambia? What type of protest actions did you as an independent engage in? All I hear you is narrating examples of people who had engaged in one form of protest or the other. I keep asking these questions because your yardstick is is ‘defiance, boycotts, protesst and demonstrations against local issues’ You describe yourself as intelligent but you fail to understand the contribution being made by individuals like Dr Sallah or organizations like Global hands. You alleged that i totally support him without understanding the work of global hands or the organization he runs. Let me tell you, I do not even know Dr Momodou Sallah personally and I do not need to know him to know the impact of the work they do in the Gambia and else where.
Hear yourself properly Maxs,”For your information, we have so many of such organizations in various universities here in USA which are involved in provoking consciousness in young people through student exchange programs which help in understanding development from perspective of indigenous people, volunteering in various community initiatives. University of The Gambia had such initiative with saint Mary college in Maryland and other universities which help students to learn from each other’s countries cultural and developmental perspectives. According to Global hands, their core business is education and public engagement. Their method of engagements includes non-formal education, arts, conferences, project work and sport.” If you are intelligent you would immediately connect the above to the overall development of the human person with which no such activism can take place. The phrase ‘provoking consciousness in young people’ has far reaching positive consequences on young people.Who then would provoke consciousness among people who are out of universities? When I was young I went through such a cultural and educational exchange program and I know the impact it has on my life and others who went through it.
Your own words: “Their method of engagements include non-formal education” Do you know the importance of non-formal education in the process of helping young people including non lettered persons? Let me inform you that I have personally made it my preoccupation to learn the orthography of Gambian languages and have served as a facilitator to help people to learn to read and write them. Non formal or informal education is what is being taught in Etton. Non formal education or informal education has the potential to raise people’s awareness, and to look at education through the use of questioning and non-directive group work to promote independent thinking, boost confidence, raise sensitivity, and also develop skills in debate. So you need to make a study of what Dr. Sallah is telling you in his writeup then you will begin to appreciate the immense contribution it can have in building this ground swell in a bottom up approach to the general consciousness raising of the ordinary person.
We have to have people in many domains working with young people and helping them to understand themselves and the society and world they live in. That process does not have to be direct political mobilising for change but has the potential to make people to be conscious of their environment, themselves, culture which ultimately helps them to understand all other issues including politics and society. A human being does not just get up and become an activist, she or he must go through experience and orientation to reach a certain stage to be able to take a positive stand against injustice, dictatorship, tyranny, etc and even go further to want to remove and replace it with an alternative better system.
Maxs, emptiness of purpose is not an insult, it simply means your writings do not have any particular direction and I keep on laughing at it as fiction. Are you saying those who enjoy fiction are schizophrenic?
Yerro ba , how many thousand Gambians are studying abroad , gone through students exchange programs or being sponsored to study abroad either through various government departments , personal assistant or independent organizations ? What are their contributions now to change the system instead of working in the various offices to help Jammeh to oppress Gambians . I understand fully well the work of global hands and that was why i recommended Dr Sallah and every Gambian involved in education of young people . The reasons why I gave examples of protest , boycott , demonstration etc was because those actions were direct threat to laws and policies implemented by authorities at the time . Students exchange is not the same as advocating to fight one’s conditions. Every day , Gambians are engage in helping to educate our people through sponsorship in various universities in the world . How many of these intellectuals are contributing to fight military dictatorship ? Right now the small Gambia has third highest expatiates in Africa living outside The Gambia who are contributing to other economies because of military dictatorship . How many are contributing to the struggle which is the basis for this discussion? I have never say what Dr Sallah is doing is not good but what I suggest to refocus his attentions on laws and policies .
As for emptiness of purpose , I refer you back to psychiatrist or psychology to see if the meaning is fiction or not. I am sure you are following and enjoying my writings because they mean a lot to you and they have particular direction which is why you stated that ” so long you keep hammering hardworking practical and sincere players in the political process ” you will continue to question my independent . Of course I know you don’t like pdois leadership to be criticized . Lol
Here is what I said to Dr Sallah regarding his work :
” Engaging in works such as education of young people and serving disadvantaged groups are all good things . I am proud of you and I commend you for that ”
Here is what you said about me ” you described yourself as intelligent but you fail to understand the contribution being made by individuals like Dr Sallah or organizations like Global hands “.
Yerro why I would be proud of Dr Sallah’s work and commended him without understanding his work ? Does that make any sense to you ? Come on be fair minded at least.
“Come on be fair minded at least,” demanded Maxs.
My dear Maxs, interesting that you are demanding for fairmindedness from me at this stage.Well i hope you too will abide by that same demand. In a commonsense debate people follow the sum total of the arguments but not the bits and pieces. You said you commended Dr Sallah in one phrase but i said you denounced his efforts in all your comments and still expect that will exonerate you from being called insincere.
Let me remind you of some of your comments in this debate so that readers will know whether you had fairmindedness as your guide during debate. “Dr Sallah’s approach is the easiest path anyone can take. It is an approach we are all doing everyday to feed our families, friends and neighbors as well as help to pay school fees and medical bills for countless people. What is the basis for that approach when you have the system which has policies and laws that supported political oppression?
“so it is not a surprise to see you give full support to Dr Sallah’s easy and sustained capacity building which will take generations to change military dictatorship.”
“If Mr Gmeiner was a selfish guy , Dr Sallah won’t have such an opportunity, therefore in this world of give and take , we should always remember that there are others who are oppressed , poor and disabled. it is responsibility of every citizen to play their role to end political oppression which affect every aspect of our development efforts and our existence as human beings .”
“Don’t you think it is better we get rid of the structural system which promote oppression then we can come up with sustained capacity building projects? This was what civil rights movement in USA led by Dr king and others did. They fought the system which promote discrimination, oppression, mistreatment of blacks and other minorities till the federal government became aware of their own guilt in advocating for oppressive laws.”
“Freedom in any given society is demanded ‘but not given through mere setting up educational charity organizations’ . We demanded our political freedom and independence from the British. Dr Sallah gave a very smart answer to abdicate his responsibility as a citizen to the service of the nation which need him most in this difficult time .”
“I have never said what Dr Sallah is doing is not good but what I suggest to refocus his attention on laws and policies.”
Comment:
Is it not clear from the above that you have no appreciation for the work Dr. Sallah is engaged in? Your position throughout the discussion is to relegate his initiative to the background and give prominence to your method of street protests, etc as the only legitimate way of ridding the Gambia of dictatorship. Many and I are trying to put tol you that there are many roads leading to Vancouver but your insistence in not wanting to give recognition or credence to other avenues is what prolonged the discussion.
You are of the opinion that i do not want you to criticize PDOIS but that is far from the truth. All i call for is constructive criticism. It is you who claim that you are an independent analyst or oberver and we are saying that by your singling out PDOIS for not being able to remove the dictatorship for a generation is not being objective and is meant only to put Pdois in a negative light when that is true of all other parties. I said this cannot earn you the recognition of an impartial observer or independent analyst because an objective analyst would engage in research to come up with facts and would be quoting sources and documents to authenticate and give merit to his work. But even opinionated writers need to do research before coming up with opinion. If you want to be an objective independent analyst, no issue is small for you.
To opine that everything including capacity building be kept on hold until we get rid of the dictatorship is devoid of commonsense and substance.
Finally,you are parading the wrong notion that once you are an independent analyst you will be objective in your analysis. Mark you, there are so many so-called independent analysts creating a lot of confusion in this world, analysing and opinionating things in their own interests. To believe that political parties or entities have a tendency to follow their own interest but individuals or independents would not is misconcieved and out of place. Anyone can be infected with the disease.
Yerro Ba , I think you do not understand what Dr Sallah has written. The only people who agreed with your view is pdois disciples such as Bax and kamalo , so your assumption that many agreed with your view is false. You keep dismissing the views of others and I can only conclude that you think only Pdois views is right in your mind . This is why I told your rigid partisan view makes you bias in political process .
Yerro Ba ” I have already told you the forces clamoring for change in The Gambia are not homogenous group , some are old wines in new bottles. Retrogressive forces such as the PPP , NCP , Gpp etc have long misled the people since the so-called independence in 1965. The people are kept backward , illiterate , uniformed . They were told to vote for their relatives , friends , uncles and those they know “.
Yerro Ba, are you telling us that we still don’t have the same issues in The Gambia for the past 21 years ? Why is fonni is no go area for the opposition’s ? Are you not using your partisan view to criticize other parties who are not in power before , you excluded pdois in your criticism in the same period of time ? You have indicted all political parties except pdois . It is always your position to defend your party and in your view it is only credible party. That is how partisan politics work just like in this case .
I hope you are following recent events in Burkina , on which issue you previously indicated that ” the clock is Turning back ” . I can tell you the clock is not turning back because activists and the regular army has demonstrated their stand and demanded their rights . I will also refer you to Dr Jallow recent article on ” intellectuals and the African condition ” and see where Dr Sallah fall on the Said’s thoughts on intellectuals .
on the issue on independent mind which I have thoroughly explained to you but you don’t seen to understand . Independent mind or individual has far more ability to make unbiased independent decision with regards to issues involved . This is why we have independent analysts or opinions . Why do we call for independent judiciary in country ?
Yerro Ba said ” to believe that political parties or entities have a tendency to follow their own interests but individual or independents would not is conceived and out of place . Anyone can be infected with the disease “.
The statement above about political parties is factual correct because political parties are created to follow their political views , interests , policies about what they envision for the country . As I said the independents look at the whole ranges of issues and make independent observation and conclusion about is what right . There is no perfection in this process but they make sure they make right thinking or choices because there is high degree of certainty that majority didn’t have any interest or affiliation in the parties involved . Having open mind leads to independent thinking . This is why I encourage you to look beyond what pdois offer.
Massive thanks to everyone who has taken time to post comments; I have found the comments most enlightening.
My dear Maxs, I think our debate is over and there is no longer any need to prolong it. The fact that you have accepted that the process taken by independents is imperfect is humbling enough. Now what I want you to concede again is that any party that is worth the name should also look at a wide range of issues before arriving at any conclusion. I still insist that just because an organization is called a party does not mean that such a party would follow only its own interest. Parties are oblige to follow the collective interest if they are to survive as entities or be given a mandate to run the affairs of the majority. Why would parties be giving mandate to govern when the majority did not have interest or affiliation in those parties? You are still deluding yourself to thinking that individuals within parties or political entities cannot have independent mind of their own, just because they belong to a political party or subscribe to it. It is the minds of individuals to brain storm and debate issues before arriving at decisions or come up with policies and programmes. Are you saying that your individual mind has greater capacity to look at a range of issues and arrive at a better conclusion than a group of like minded individuals? I hope that’s not what you are saying. As the old adage say, many minds are always better than one. I think you need to think of a better reason to give why youve opted to remain independent. As I told you long time ago, our homeland needs activists who will work in tandem with organisations to facilitate and bring about the change that we deserve not individuals preoccupied with criticism of organisations and individuals who are sacrificing far more than them.
This is why while you are bent on criticizing Pdois, I am reminding you to assess whether your effort towards change in Gambia is above that of the Pdois or even that of Dr. Sallah, to which you always deviate. This is why i describe you as insincere.
You made mention of Baba’s article but before categoring others it is better you tell the readership the category you belong to. Dr. Jallow said and i quote: “Having thus repressed their natural inclination to do something, they convince themselves that they are merely decent citizens sitting on the fence.” I have already noticed you sitting on the fence by pretending to be an independent long before Baba came up with his analysis. Just because you are criticizing the regime at home in a nameless and hidden face does not make you any different from someone who is doing his work to contribute in one way or the other without criticizing in the open. And i am not saying either that Sallah is a perfect intellectual.
Everything that Dr. Jallow said in his essay is true of African elites. All of us will see ourselves in that mirror. It is better to describe yourself in it than trying to categorize others in it. My opinion is that one must have the moral authority to criticize someone whose contribution is lesser than yours in this struggle to salvage homeland. It is also my humble opinion that all contributions are worthy as long as they are geared in one way or the other to helping free the homeland. For you one must engage in your prescribed method before one could be seen to be seen to be working towards it.
Maxs, the fact that the soldiers dared to take over power shows that everything is in the equilibrium and nothing is certain yet in Burkina. What it shows is there is a struggle and when that struggle will end is anybody’s guess. My analysis is, if the clock is turned back then the people of Burkina have not yet attain the democratic revolution but if the masses are able to sustain the struggle from all angles and refused the clock from turning back, then i can say the democratic revolution is taking shape in that troubled country. I hope i make myself clear this time around.
This is why i said with the type of change I envisioned, that reverse would no longer be possible. The people would forever be in charge. It is interesting that you are concluding that the people of Burkina will always be in charge not knowing fully well why the army commanders are not cooperating with the presidential guards in this take over? Many issues are at play which required analyzing.
Thanks
Yerro Ba , here is what I said about being independent ” as I said the independent look at the whole ranges of issues and make independent observation and conclusion about what is right . There is no perfection in this process but they make sure they make right thinking or choices because there is high of certainty that majority didn’t have any interest or affilliation in the parties involved “.
Here is what you said below ;
Yerro Ba ” the fact that you have accepted that the process taken by independents is imperfect is humbling enough ”
The reason I embarked to educate you about the idea of being an independent political thinker in our political process or independent citizen is that I noticed you do not have respect for independent mind which is guaranteed in our constitution . This debate is not about independent , it is about national issue which independent political thinker without any party affiliation expressed his view and that gave you a problem . If you have respect for independent view or understand the constitutional provision which guarantee independent political belief you won’t categorized my political belief as sitting on the fence , despite the fact that I lectured you the important of independent voters or independent citizen in political process both in our country and else where . The mere fact that I admitted that there is no perfection in the process of independent political thinking itself should suggest to you that I have more open mind and be able to assess my own views and that of others and make right decision . Having imperfect process does not mean the decision is not right. Your rigged and dogmatic view won’t allow you to make such assessment because in your mind you think every political party is interested in advancing national interest first which is not the case sometimes . Example recent amendment election act 2015 is not in the best interest of nation in democratization process . Political parties have more set of party’s rules or conduct as well as laws and constitution which voters or members have to follow while the independent only follow the laws, individual political beliefs , programs and constitution. Individual members in political parties can make independent decision but that decision is also constraint by parties ideology or policies . Individuals decision does not stand in political party, therefore political parties engage in collective decision making process .An independent politician, thinker or analyst decision stand on its own and is not influence by other party rules because he is not a member . This is why we have independent National Assembly members . Are you trying to imply that independent National Assembly members should also join another political party ? Don’t you know they are playing key role in fighting the system we want to change ? If you do not like the idea of being independent then you should advocate for constitutional changes but I know in most democracies independent political belief, affilliation , stand or being independent is guaranteed in their constitution. . If you are thinking that I am sitting on the fence or do not contribute, that is simply false, lies , dishonest , malicious and hypocritical . So you want to force me to join your party or be affiliated with an organization . Don’t you understand that today we have independent National Assembly members who are doing better job than those of Aprc members . Yerro Ba get some education about politics. This debate is about those silenced intellectuals . Those intellectuals who do not have party affiliation and are contributing In our struggle are not part of this debate. There are so many well meaning Gambian activists who are participating , sponsoring or contributing to various organizations but they are independent In their political thinking or belief. the debate is prolong because I disagree with your limited understanding of independent’s view which you are wrong and intolerance or bias . I don’t blame you because your lack of exposure to different political climates is what is disturbing you and making you obsessed to hate the idea of being independent .
Yerro Ba said ” as the old adage say , many minds are always better than one “. The above adage is not always the case . Majority of today’s development achievement , innovations and economic advancements are as a result of great ideas of single individual which was later supported by many .Majority of the time , the masses are blindly following the wrong side of the history at the beginning when individual comes with great ideas. Collective thinking does not necessarily lead to better outcome. I can tell you individual thinking lead to many breakthrough in medicine , technological innovations and better economic model . I will give you a simple example which we all use every day , that is telephone . Telephone is an idea of single individual . Do you think any government sit down and say we are going to invent telephone ? Alexander Graham Bell invented telephone which we all use today . Yerro Ba , collective thinking is old and outdated concept . This is one problem of Gambian culture. Individualism is not respected in our culture . Individualism leads to different ideas . The Approach taken by Dr Sallah can be seen as the one taken by every decent gambian who is involved in education of young people.
Yerro , my suggestions is to target laws and policies which can be in
Many forms such as demonstration , speaking up against oppression , advocating for those whose rights has been violated and so on . I do not subscribed to one method only as you falsely stated . Go back and read my article .
Here is another contradiction you made about statement below :
Yerro Ba said ” it is also my humble opinion that all contributions are worthy as long as they are geared in one way or the other to helping free the homeland ”
The fact that you dismissed my contributions and any independent minded guy shows that your statement above is disingenuous, hypocritical and dishonest because you do not respect independent view or independent’s activist who do not join any organization.
You need to visit pdois center in Serekunda and learn what they stand for because your understanding of democracy is very limited and I am sure They would be happy to coach you to have better understanding about political process. Pdois is not your personal property , it is political party which should be criticized just like any party .
As for Burkina Faso , I can tell you and Bax are dead wrong because the clock is not turning back . The interim government has called for disarmament and disband of presidential Guards and the process has began. Presidential guards leadership has been fired and interim leader is in charge . Fighting dictatorship is not an easy fight , every options should be used . Sometime even the opposition parties can be key players to legitimatizing dictatorship because of disunity , their political stand and lack of coherent strategy.
You will be happy if I stop criticism of your party but your information , that is not going to happen . You can keep denying my independent in your mind but you can’t prevent my participation as independent minded citizen because it is my constitutional right .
Dear Maxs,
Let me respond to you point by point to make matters clear since you keep changing the goal post.
1. I have no problem with you on having an independent mind. I think everyone should have an independent mind. My problem with you is that you feel that anyone with an independent mind should not be part of a group or party and the reason why you did not join any party is because you are an independent. I said this is not necessarily the case; that you can have an independent mind and yet still belong to a party of like minded people. Your confusion is the mixure of the terms ‘independent mind’, ‘independent thinker’ and being ‘independent’, to the extend that you are mentioning ‘independent judiciary’, ‘independent National Assembly’, etc. My position is that you Maxs IS NOT A SINCERE INDEPENDENT ANALYST since you pick on only one party and leave all the others. I am looking at your practice which is alien to somebody calling himself an independent. Isaid calling yourself an independent does not make you one unless your practice proves so.
2. I did not say you should not criticise PDOIS but i insist that criticism should be constructive and that your singling out PDOIS for not being able to remove Jammeh for a generation is insincere and out of place because there are other parties operating since 1996 who have not also done so.
3. You went on bringing down the initiative of Dr Sallah stating that everything should be put on hold until we get rid of the dictatorship, but i am saying that is not the right thing to do because all other efforts seen or unseen are interconnected and are all helping the process to bring durable democracy to homeland.
4. As for rigidity and dogmatism, i think you should simply leave the readers to make their judgment rather than you trying to influence their minds.
5. As for whether political parties do have national interest i said this is not true of all parties just like it is not true of all individuals and this you cannot refute.
6. Maxs: “Political parties have more set of party’s rules or conduct as well as laws and constitution which voters or members have to follow while the independent only follow the laws, individual political beliefs , programs and constitution”
Comment: So what is the difference when they all have to follow laws, political beliefs and constitution and what have you. Can you see your confusion?
7. “Yerro Ba, get some education about politics. This debate is about those silenced intellectuals . Those intellectuals who do not have party affiliation and are contributing In our struggle are not part of this debate. There are so many well meaning Gambian activists who are participating , sponsoring or contributing to various organizations but they are independent In their political thinking or belief” Maxs, i know you are a super educated person but i am urging you Maxs to respect all these people and their efforts whether silenced or not as long as their contribution is helping the struggle in one way or the other and do not alienate them. But it seems you have a problem doing that.
8. Maxs,an independent minded analyst does not jump to conclusions but make a continued assessment of the situation until its conclusion. Forget about right and wrong in this matter on Burkina and focus on the issue at hand. This is why I said ” the fact that the soldiers dared to take over power shows that everything is in the equilibrium and nothing is certain yet in Burkina. What it shows is there is a struggle and when that struggle will end is anybody’s guess. My analysis is, if the clock is turned back then the people of Burkina have not yet attained the democratic revolution but if the masses are able to sustain the struggle from all angles and refused the clock from turning back, then i can say the democratic revolution is taking shape in that troubled country. So just observe the situation and I hope the peoples will prevails.
Thanks
Yerro Ba , I have been consistently explaining the same thing to you but you don’t seem to understand . In this discussion , I mentioned pdois because it was only pdois supporters like you who gave total support to Dr Sallah’s approach which I think it is your rights to do so . As I told you before , I will criticize any party at any time if I see the need. The most vocal people in this forum are pdois supporters who are always defending their party and It happened that sometimes I disagree with you guys . That doesn’t mean I am targeting pdois . Therefore your suggestion that I singled out pdois is false . In fact in all my contribution , I always make sure I explained my views well and give alternatives to whatever I disagree with . That is how constructive contribution should be . However you may judge my contribution in any way or form and that is your rights to make independent conclusion . Please make more research about the idea of being independent . I respect and appreciate the contributions of all opposition leaders . I will criticize anyone of them I see the need . The mindset that we shouldn’t criticize them lead to idea that they are always right. This is very dangerous mindset. I hope you stop endorsing everything put forward by your party leader and critically analyze every policies or views in order to make better decision for our country . The reason I stated this is because we have seen our rigid partisan politics led to passage of election act 2015 even though those mps knew that they made stupid decisions to highjack democracy in our country.